Reality Steve

Reader Emails

“Reader Emails,” The Conspiracy Theories Flying Already & Another Hour of Sean

The conspiracy theorists are out in full force once again after Tuesday’s episode. I have 13 emails since Tuesday asking roughly the same thing. Something along the lines of, “Hey Steve, did you notice that when Catherine went to hug Sean at the beginning of their date, she had an engagement ring on her finger?” I don’t know what to tell you people. It wasn’t an engagement ring. They weren’t engaged in Canada. And they didn’t go back to Canada after their engagement at the end of the show to film it either. I guess people find it fun to speculate on, but think about what you’re saying. If you’re saying it’s an engagement ring, you’re saying that they got engaged in Canada at some point while there were still 8 other women there, then still went through with the St. Croix dates, hometown dates, overnight dates, and basically acted out the ending in Thailand. OR, better yet, you’re saying that it was filmed after the fact, that they had crew come back to Canada after filming was over to recreate them playing in the snowstorm, which is completely ridiculous. Not only that, you’re saying that IF that occurred, no one on set – Catherine, Sean, camera crew, production, editing – would ever think to say, “Hey Catherine, you might wanna take off your engagement ring. It’s clear as day in this shot.” So lets back away from the conspiracy theories, Oliver Stone. It wasn’t an engagement ring.

ABC announced yesterday that they will be doing another two-night “Bachelor” event. On Tuesday, February 19th, they are going to air a one-hour “Sean Tells All” episode. That’ll be the day after we see the hometown date episode. They’ve never done something like this before, so I have no idea what it’s gonna entail, but I’m gonna guess nothing too earth shattering. Probably Sean in a pre-taped interview with Chris Harrison going over the season, talking about certain women, and discussing what’s upcoming. What else can it be? He’s still got overnights and the final rose ceremony to come, so, it’s not like he’d be giving away all that much. Great. Instead of the pointless 5 minute fireside chats in the deliberation room we occasionally see between these two, now we’ll get an hour of it. Yippee.

Due to writing two long ass columns this week, and yet another “Reader Email” bag that has over 50 emails in it, I’ve decided to hold off on “Dr. Reality Steve” this week, and we’ll be back to a normal schedule next week. I’ve already got 17 “Dr. Reality Steve” emails to get to, and I expect that to grow in the next few days. I feel like I haven’t got up from my computer desk since Monday night except to eat, walk Maddie, go to the bathroom, and watch shows. On to your emails…

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  1. jackie22

    February 7, 2013 at 9:38 AM

    “Pretty sure you are a fake, bought and paid for by ABC to “create’ controversy & increase viewership.”

    REALLY?! If ABC bought out RS, then why would they pay him to spoil the entire show?! Pretty sure you are a moron!

  2. linds7

    February 7, 2013 at 9:55 AM

    Ummm she was wearing it during the rose cerimony! I highly doubt if they were engaged with all the over girls there she would flaunt it in front of them. It makes no sense at all. She was just wearing a ring. That’s it. Maybe she thought it was cute to put it on that finger to show she’s commited or something. Relax people.

  3. iammesoucantbe

    February 7, 2013 at 10:26 AM

    In response to the relgious question somebody asked. My husband and I’s relgious beliefs are POLAR opposites. Like literally. And we have a very healthy, happy, loving marriage. “How do you make it work?” is the most commonily asked question. The answer: Comprimise!!! Simple as that. I don’t try to force him to believe what i believe and he don’t try to force me. I agreed to allow our children to be raised with his religion because I didn’t see any reason why not. I occasionally go to church with them and our Pastor knows I don’t believe anything he says. lol. Although they would all LOVE for me to become a Christian, they accept it will most likely never happen. =)

    I just wanted to throw that out there. Not that I think these guys will actually get married and have babies. I’m just saying it is possible for two people who have opposing beliefs to work.

  4. JovisMom

    February 7, 2013 at 10:56 AM

    @ iammesoucantbe – I think what that person about religion was getting at is Catherine is agnostic/atheist(?)- which they means they don’t believe in God. (I know atheist is “worse”). I’m sure if Catherine were Jewish and Sean Christian it would be different b/c at least they have some religion in their lives, were raised w\ those values, and went to some kind of “church” even though it might be different. I think it’s great you and your husband found values in each your religions and are raising your kids the way you are. I just see this being an issue for Sean and Catherine if Catherine doesn’t change.
    I agree w\ RS I would not date/marry a vegan or vegetarian…. I also would date/marry someone who is allergic to dogs (or in my case cats).

  5. tamara

    February 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM

    Lindsay seems like a lovely person, but I would hate listening to her talk like a five year old as the bachelorette for a full season. I don’t know why grown women speak like that all the time, I understand being playful and young at heart some of the time certainly, but I haven’t seen the adult strong and womanly personality with Lindsay.

  6. JovisMom

    February 7, 2013 at 11:24 AM

    I want Des to be the next Bachelorette. She seems very sweet!!
    I don’t have any bad feelings about Lindsay, I guess I just saw more of Des’ personality and like her more.

  7. chloeparise

    February 7, 2013 at 11:33 AM

    Catherine is certainly not an Atheist. I have no idea where people have got that from…. While I do not know her exact stance on religion,meaning the confession, I do know that faith plays an important part in hers and her families life!

  8. iammesoucantbe

    February 7, 2013 at 11:35 AM

    @Jovismom….I am atheist. Always have been, always will be. That will never change. I don’t believe in God, any God. He knew that when we got married and had babies. I chose to allow my children to be raised believing in God because I don’t see what it could hurt. My husband and I get along just fine. I don’t try to convince him there is no God, and he don’t try to convince me there is.

    My point is, if two people truly love each other, they will make it work. Period.

  9. elizabeth82

    February 7, 2013 at 12:30 PM

    Was that 50-yr-old lady joking? I’m pretty sure you don’t have to be rich to be on this show, but you can’t be any older than mid-30s! Ha.

    I don’t get all the people who were coming out of the woodwork and analyzing the ring situation. I’m glad Steve set them straight that they made no sense. Why the heck would ABC bring them back to Canada to film them post-engagement? Makes no sense. Reminds me of all the people who would analyze screencaps to death before RS started spoiling this show. I guess they just miss those days or something.

    I don’t understand the big deal about someone who eats meat dating a vegetarian (being a vegetarian myself–I just wouldn’t cook meat for the guy so he could cook that for himself). But oh well.

  10. strick432

    February 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM

    A few things – I noticed the ring, too but it never crossed my mind about that being her engagement ring from Sean. I really never noticed the top lip kissing until these past 2 episodes. It’s grossing me out. Maybe “real” kissing is against his religion too – until after marriage – who knows?

    I can’t keep all the Lindsay/Lesley’s straight – my head is spinning…I know the one Lesley left on the Pretty Woman date. The other Lesley was the world record kissing date and Lindsay was in the wedding dress, right? Whew…

    And is there anyone here besides me who doesn’t like the Dr. Reality Steve columns? I come here to read spoilers and info on the Bachelor/ette/Pad shows…not love and relationship advice. As Chris Bukowski would say – “I’m a grown ass (wo)man!!”

    Just my two cents – for what’s it worth.

  11. sapphire

    February 7, 2013 at 12:46 PM

    So why is being Christian such a big deal, it doesn’t mean Sean is some kind of saint or anything like that. Every person can say ‘Oh, I’m all about God, family.’ But they cheat, do lots of crappy things. Being religious doesn’t automatically upgrade you to a better person, being not religious doesn’t mean anything either.

  12. JovisMom

    February 7, 2013 at 12:51 PM

    @ elizabeth82 – My issue w\ the vegetarian/vegan thing is that EVERY single one I met man and woman judges me for eating meat.(Not saying you or others are like that, again this is my experience) They then want me to watch some video of how the animals are treated and butchered… All the while wearing leather coats, belts, shoes, etc…. Ummm whose the hyprocrite? If you kill an animal for fashion wants wrong with killing one for food?

  13. JovisMom

    February 7, 2013 at 12:54 PM

    and I know I had some typos
    Their, there, they’re spelling Nazis I’m not correcting them!! LOL!!!

  14. elizabeth82

    February 7, 2013 at 1:34 PM

    Fair enough, jovis, if that’s been your experience. I do wish *ideally* that everyone would be vegetarian, but they won’t so no use trying to convert them all individually! And it’s certainly not realistic to expect all one’s friends and people you are interested in romantically to go veg . . . Good luck having any relationships then, ha.

    As for fashion, I buy faux-leather as much as I can (like I no longer buy leather purses or wallets). The sticking point is finding good shoes that are comfortable, look nice, and are the style I’m looking for that aren’t leather. So I still buy leather shoes sometimes. I wish I didn’t, but at least they’re using the whole animal. And I am cutting down just a little on the number of animals killed for food by not eating any during my lifetime (since my teens).

  15. randais

    February 7, 2013 at 1:48 PM

    Strick – I’m with you, makes no sense to me. I just don’t read them, in fact I don’t read the general emails either. But it’s no great effort on my part to ignore both of them, so I read the stuff that’s actually interesting… me and I skip the rest of it.

    jovis- such a rebel :D.

    Juliette and Rayna really clashed this episode, their “truce” seems to be wearing thin. I wasn’t surprised to see Teddy cheat, but I was surprised to see Rayna cave, I mean if she didn’t all those years ago, but it WAS after Teddy asked for a divorce so I guess that was her motivation. I found my respect for Scarlett up a notch this episode, she clearly has turned a corner with regard to Avery…good for her and helllloooo Gunner, way to take Avery out! I liked that he held his own, not unprevoked either I might add. Avery moving out of his “control freak” agents, was way overdue. I like the idea of Rayna taking Scarlett and Gunner on, they’d make a killer warm up band for her concert tour.

  16. bigfatwoman

    February 7, 2013 at 2:07 PM

    To clarify:

    An atheist is a person who does not believe in God or a supreme being in any religion

    An agnostic is more of a gray area as far as the existence of a God and an agnostic does not subscribe to any one religion.

    In other words….I’m an atheist therefore there is no God. I’m an agnostic, therefore I’m unsure.

  17. jen224

    February 7, 2013 at 2:56 PM

    St. Croix is considered part of North America

  18. bunbun

    February 7, 2013 at 3:49 PM

    “K, Tierra legitimately thinks “fustrating” is a word. The first time she said it, I thought it was a mistake, but 2 times in a row=no, she really thinks that’s the word.”It is a word. I looked it up in the dictionary. Steve you agreed with the comment that it was not a word. you are both wrong.

  19. dmb2012

    February 7, 2013 at 4:33 PM

    Is anyone else getting sick of the phrase “at the end of the day”? I think it’s way over used by the all the leads/contestants

  20. heliofan

    February 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM

    Dmb2012….yes “at the end of the day ” drives me CRAZY!

  21. freeasabird

    February 7, 2013 at 5:42 PM

    Great captioned pics of Tierra’s hypothermia at Makes me miss Ashley Spivey’s pics even more than I did already.

    Why was Catherine waiting for Sean without gloves or mittens? No wonder she was cold.

    Why didn’t Daniella bring something to touch up her roots?

    I enjoyed Ali’s comments on her 2 on 1 date. She let the producers pick who went and who went home. (The glacier date in Iceland.)

    I see that Selma rec’d tweets from Jenna Burke, Craig R (Steve’s brother from another mother), Lindzi Cox, Trista Sutter, and Chris Bukowski all within hours of being sent home on Tuesday’s show.

    Now I understand why they all have such HUGE earrings. They were in the gift bags.

    Want to win a Valentine’s date with Jef Holm? Just go to People Water, spend 30 bucks and write some stuff to enter. If I didn’t have to spend the 30 bucks I’d have my writer friend whip me up an entry. Wouldn’t Jef love to have a date with a senior citizen? Wonder if he’d let me bring my husband?

    No, I do NOT follow Selma, Jef etc on Twitter. They were retweeted by someone I do follow.

    Thank you to whoever mentioned Jen Frase’s blog. Love it!

    I’m not going to proofread this so hope it made sense.

  22. jillbeau

    February 7, 2013 at 5:54 PM

    Elizabeth82…I agree with you about the vegetarian/vegan thing. I’m kind of confused why it keeps getting discussed. I guess it’s a personal thing. I’m sure that Sean is aware that Catherine is a vegan and he picked her anyway. Must be okay with him.

    About the really long email regarding the whole rose falling to the ground issue…I did not feel manipulated or deceived by that scene. Yes, I realize that it was filmed after the fact for dramatic effect. So what? Now, when the producers obviously slice and dice different conversations to make drama that was never really there…that’s what annoys me. Showing a rose falling to the ground?…eh, I don’t really care.

  23. jillbeau

    February 7, 2013 at 6:12 PM

    Freeasabird…thank you so much for linking to that blog! I was laughing so hard!! It definitely is a good alternative to Ashley Spivey’s blog since she’s not doing it this season.

  24. whatireallymean

    February 7, 2013 at 8:22 PM

    bunbun – Fustrating is not a word, but frustrating is. It actually took me a while to figure it out too. Didn’t notice the r was missing at first.

  25. youdonotknowme

    February 7, 2013 at 10:28 PM

    I heard Tierra say “Fustrating” and I laughed. I first heard this word when Jordan said it on Big Brother season 11. And Jordan said it many times! I consider it ‘hillbilly speak’.

    Tierra clearly was pretending to have hypothermia after the polar plunge. She was fine going in, and coming out of the water. If she was that cold she would have been the first one to get covered up, and instead she stood there in her shiny bikini like the idiot that she is.

    (I have taken many saunas and then jumped into a lake that has had a hole chopped out of the foot thick ice many times. Nude. There is a ladder placed in the hole so you can climb out. It is very exhilarating! Oh, but I wasn’t actually nude, because I wore wool socks so my feet wouldn’t stick to the ice as I ran from the sauna hut out onto the frozen lake. The Polar Plunge isn’t so different. A lot of people do it for charity fundraisers!)

    I love watching this show BECAUSE of the spoilers. Keep up the great work!

    But, I cringe at the thought of a 1 hour Sean Tell’s All! Ugg. I think he is the most boring and bland bachelor ever. I am thinking that in person he is pretty impressive because of his muscular body, but I can not see that he has any personality at all. I am not saying he is a bad person at all, just average which equals boring on television.

    When Sean and Catherine went on their date, my daughter said, “Who is that? I don’t remember her…” and she was not impressed with her either. I don’t want to spoil the show for her, so I kept my mouth shut. But, this goes to show that the editing ABC wants is working: Catherine is not on the radar of the average viewer, and it Lindsey is.

  26. theblackdiamond

    February 7, 2013 at 11:44 PM

    @ jovismom how do you figure being a atheist is so bad and provides no morals? Because we don’t believe in talking snakes? In wanting a some supreme being to convict us of thought crimes? Religion was mans first attempt at understanding Medicean and biology. now we have proven sciences and understanding biology to explain why someone got sick or why a hurricane heading our way.
    I’m a very moral person who greatly believes in being kind to others and doing what’s right. Has nothing to do with religion which has mainly caused 99% of the wars in this world along with justifying slavery and suppression to others because they’re different I’m a Atheist and it shouldn’t be a bad word it just means I care to spend more of my time focusing on reason and logic rather then lies and manipulation

  27. mommyof2

    February 8, 2013 at 7:04 AM

    I actually think this season of The Bachelorette has some of the most “normal”, drama-free girls who are also beautiful, than any other season- excluding Tierra, of course. I’m glad they cast some more down-to-earth girls this season, and it really shows that they really only need just one (maybe two) drama-queen crazies to give some good TV. Tierra has done that quite well, to everyone’s annoyance. I am ready for her to be gone, of course. I for one think that there’s no way Sean could actually still be interested in Tierra after all of her attention-seeking drama; he must have been told by producers to keep her around for good TV. If not, then he’s an idiot, and is an example of some guys who do like dramatic women as long as the drama and attention is centered around him. But, even if the bad girl wins out initially, a good girl will eventually win him in the end as these guys rarely actually marry the drama queen. Let’s hope, at least!

  28. JovisMom

    February 8, 2013 at 7:05 AM

    @ theblackdiamond – I never said that being atheist meant having no morals… I said it was “worse” then being agnositc. That is why I put it in quotes because it is more extreme then being agnostic.

  29. ccrider

    February 8, 2013 at 7:10 AM

    @randais concerning ***NASHVLLE***
    I thought all of the characters had a life changing “moment” this episode. Rayna when she let Deacon kiss her in the elevator and then asked him to come over…..only to find Teddy at the door instead and wanting a divorce. Teddy when he slept with what’s her name and then telling Rayna he wanted a divorce. Deacon when he kissed Rayna. Juliette when she did what she wanted and performed the duet with Deacon on stage…..and when she hugged her assistant (loved that moment….she has a heart after all!) Then all of the Gunner/Scarlett/Avery stuff…..I think they all grew a pair this episode. I also like the idea of Rayna signing on Gunner and Scarlett. Next week’s episode looks really good too!!

  30. mommyof2

    February 8, 2013 at 7:14 AM

    As far as the religion discussion going on, I can attest to the fact that relationships run much more smooth if both people hold the same values and beliefs. It was never an issue with my husband and I until we started having children, and we had different ideas on what church to baptize our children and what church to raise them in. It’s taken us 7 years to FINALLY agree on a place we both feel happy, welcomed, and comfortable, so it can work. But, it’s very important for both people to talk about these things and come to an understanding and compromise about how they will raise their children BEFORE getting married so they don’t have tension, arguments, etc… for seven years before finally compromising. But, it CAN work! Even so, I will definitely raise my kids and remind them as they get older that finding someone with the same or similar core values and beliefs is important.

  31. youknowme

    February 8, 2013 at 7:39 AM

    @randais – Deacon and Rayna kissed in the elevator BEFORE Teddy asked for a divorce. On the preview for the next eposide it does show her her hooking up with Liam.

    ****I’m team Lindsay even though I know Sean picks Catherine****

  32. Sunnyside422

    February 8, 2013 at 8:40 AM

    I believe Sean will be back peddling big time every chance he gets after the show and his obligations wane. Like admitting the roller derby, polar bear plunge, mountain climbing, etc. weren’t his favorite things to do….but. Well we know he can’t come right out and say the producers made me do these stupid things as well as keeping certain girls for drama and letting some go in insensitive ways.

    Basically, the show picked a puppet and he is proving himself to be a fine one! I never thought the was a mental giant to begin with and my goodness he has gone to another level.

    Both Catherine and Lindsay are little girls…their speech patterns and actions confirm that. Also they are tiny and now the hulking Sean can have his playthings…while they last. I hope he enjoys the money he was paid to make himself look like a total fool.

  33. randais

    February 8, 2013 at 8:54 AM

    youknowme – (do I?) Are you sure, I could have sworn they didn’t kiss until the very end of the episode. Anybody else? Don’t make me go back and watch this again… I will :D.

  34. liz123

    February 8, 2013 at 9:23 AM

    @bunbun, for the love of God (had to throw this phrase in since it fits the topic of this comment section!), “fustrating” is NOT a word!!!! The only dictionary it appears in is the “urban dictionary” where even the definition that appears there tells you that “fustrating” is not a real word. America just keeps getting dumber & dumber.

  35. ccrider

    February 8, 2013 at 10:44 AM

    randais…..Deacon kissed Rayna in the elevator before the end of the show but I don’t remember if it was before or after Teddy slept with whats her name. After “the kiss” Rayna texted Deacon something….I couldn’t make it out on my TV…..but it must have been something along the lines of come over or let’s talk because he got up and went to her room…..just to find Teddy there.

  36. youknowme

    February 8, 2013 at 12:01 PM

    @randais…. I’m sure lol! Deacon kissed Rayna on the elevator and then later she texted him and that is when he saw Teddy at her door about to come in. And after Teddy came in that is when he said he wanted the divorce.

    @ccrider…. Rayna texted Deacon “Talk? PH1”

    NASHVILLE…. I can’t beleive Rayna hooks up with Liam. WTH?!

  37. youknowme

    February 8, 2013 at 12:02 PM

    And nobody know me. lol. Which is why I made my name this. Kinda an oxymoron. 🙂

  38. youknowme

    February 8, 2013 at 12:05 PM


  39. iheartvino

    February 8, 2013 at 1:24 PM

    Okay so now I can’t wait to watch this week’s episode. Sounds like it was a good one! I’m not surprised Rayna’s going to be hooking up with Liam- saw that one coming from miles away, but I don’t see the appeal. I think he’s gross and a jerk.

    And who needs The Following when we have our own version going on right here in Southern CA? I don’t know if anyone else on here lives in Orange County, but this Christopher Dorner manhunt is crazy. Yesterday when driving to a client meeting, I had to drive through the area where the shooting occurred. Two exits on one of the Fwys were closed in both directions and I had never seen so many cop cars in one place before. It literally took 45 min to go one mile. I hope they find the madman soon!

  40. punka

    February 8, 2013 at 1:58 PM

    Des would be an awesome Bachelorette. She has this awesome Katie Holmes thing going on. They could be sisters. It is hot.

    Personally. I’d like to see AshLee get the gig for a few reasons. First is that the chick is screaming hot with an amazing bod for a 30-something. Next is that I think her neuroses would play out really well on screen. She would melt down often, and it would make for good TV.

    So call me selfish. I want to see a hawt yet partially emotionally unstable chick get the gig. Make for better viewing.

  41. randais

    February 8, 2013 at 3:30 PM

    CC & Youdon’t – DANG IT, I was sure it happened at the very end, the kiss being a “cliffhanger”. I may have to go back and check it out for myself, yes I really AM just that OCD.

    iheart – I actually appreciate Liam’s sarcasm, he makes me laugh but Rayna’s “lack of self control” is upsetting me. I should call her and tell her :D. I mean, she has been (in my opinion) portrayed as a fairly value conscience individual with a backbone that is now seeming to disappear. Maybe it was just the fact that she told Teddy that her and Deacon had never….. I respected that, now she’s all “kissy in elevators and texting single men”…bahahha, just not what I expected.

    So anyway, what’s this about a murderer in your neck of the woods? I hadn’t heard anything about this.

  42. randais

    February 8, 2013 at 3:39 PM

    OH MY GOODNESS as SOON as I typed that, a story came on all about it!

  43. randais

    February 8, 2013 at 3:42 PM

    AND I meant “youknow” NOT “youdon’t” although I don’t think I do so “youdon’t” would actually be correct right? 😉

    The Job premieres tonight, I’m getting off of here so I can get in my pj’s (big nor’ easter passing by us, so I’m staying put tonight) and relaxing to some tv time.

  44. iheartvino

    February 8, 2013 at 7:41 PM

    Randais, I am doing the same, only here it’s raoning. time to catch up on my DVRd shows. i have family in MA and NY and they said they’ve already gotten a ton of snow.

  45. iheartvino

    February 8, 2013 at 7:42 PM


  46. ironside

    February 9, 2013 at 10:34 AM

    Q:Have you ever made it to first base with a girl from this franchise? (No names – just Y/N) I actually googled “first base” to make sure it still means what it did when I first heard of the baseball metaphors for sex. I didn’t want to be too personal. Ha.

    A: No. Never tried either.

    Personally, I would love the chance to ski the Grand Tetons with Donna Zitelli. Don’t tell my wife though.

  47. karynr

    February 10, 2013 at 7:06 AM

    sunnyside, I think your use of the word “puppet” is quite appropriate for this season. Sean plays the role well.
    I also get the impression he’s the type who may get drawn in by the damsel in distress types. I don’t know if he’s a nurturer, but he certainly likes playing protector to the more damaged individuals.

    **The Taste**
    i caught if for the first time this week and thought it was a little strange. It didn’t flow smoothly for me and seemed somewhat disjointed.
    Anthony Boudain is a lot more fun on the Travel channel. He’s not as loose on this show, and it takes away part of what makes him so appealing.

  48. mommyof2

    February 10, 2013 at 8:56 AM

    I’m with those of you who prefer Desiree for the next Bachelorette. She’s sweet, beautiful, humble, and down-to-earth. I love that she didn’t act all surprised at that dumb prank they did on her first one-on-one date, and I thought it was pretty cool how easily she climbed that tree (cheesy, yes, but still impressive!). Lindsay would be fine, too, but her giggling all of the time could get annoying. I still prefer Des as the next Bachelorette.

  49. freeasabird

    February 10, 2013 at 8:57 AM

    **The Taste**

    I have watched all 3(?) episodes. I agree with you, karynr. It seemed really choppy this week. I found myself not caring about it anymore. So, no more of it for me.

  50. kianwi

    February 10, 2013 at 10:36 AM

    Great batch of emails and some really funny responses.

    I am truly annoyed to hear that they are doing yet another double episode. I’m running a Bachelor Fantasy league, and last week just about killed me with trying to calculate all the points and people making their lineup changes in between the two. Thank God this one is just Sean, though.

    And, finally, I have heard not only women, but grown men…grown men!!, use the word ‘totes.’ Nails on a chalkboard.

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