PODCAST #402 WITH JACQUELINE TRUMBULL TRANSCRIPT
All right, let’s bring her in. You know her from RE season of the bachelor. She was on some season of paradise that we don’t need to talk about, but she also has a podcast called a little help for our friends. She is a multi time guest on the show. It is Jacqueline Trumbull. Jacqueline, how are you? Hi, I’m great.
How are you? I’m wonderful. So let’s start out with this. You’ve been on the podcast probably, I don’t know, five, six, seven times, but this is the first On video. How do you like the whole video thing? Jacqueline, other than you being flipped.
I’m yeah, I’m flipped. I spent all day on zoom talking to patients.
So I’m like totally wigged out because the, I don’t know that anybody else can tell what the video is flipped. So like
your left hand is supposed to be your right hand.
Yeah. Yeah.
When you’re on zoom with patients, it doesn’t do this. No, I know. Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, my, when, like my shirt, people can read it left to right.
So my side isn’t flipped. I don’t know why yours is, maybe it’s the way you have the phone. Maybe when you turn the phone horizontally, you turned it horizontally one way instead of maybe the other. I don’t know. I don’t know how it works. Oh, you’re on your laptop. Okay. Even better. So, let’s let’s first dive into Jen’s season.
I know you’re caught up now on Jen’s season.
I binged it. I don’t know. Just for you.
Right. Right off the bat. What are your impressions so far through four episodes?
Well, I, I liked Jenna a lot on Joey’s season. So I was excited when she was the bachelorette. I think she is really kind of endearing in how she, you know, she feels like a little bit insecure in the role, but she’s coming into her own.
And I like how kind of cute she is with the guys and. Not always incredibly polished. So I like her. I think these guys are being little babies a lot of the time with all their talk of respect and they’re all beating each other up, but I really like Marcus. Really like Devin. I like Spencer. I think.
Is there anybody, I mean, when you watch it. Obviously having been on the show and having been through it does, I don’t want to say PTSD because you’re so far removed from it. I don’t think you still get affected by watching the show and other people’s edits or, I don’t know, maybe when you watch the show, do you try and pick out things that you know are edited or Frankenbitten or anything like that, or do you just watch it to just as mindless television?
I would say a little bit of both. I mean, I’m not like scouring it, but the number one thing I pay attention to is when like, there are patterns that repeat. Show to show, like, season to season to season, like, I was shocked that Aaron Noah’s brother made the big deal about interrupting, for instance, and respect and like, when after.
Devin, because I’m just like, well, how do you not know better by now? Like how, and then how did Noah not tell you that people get assigned times to talk to the lead, you know? And like, here’s the thing. I got my airtime wiped. Okay. But I also left early. So I think you have a couple of strategies on the show.
One, you can be dramatic in which case you’ll get airtime, but you’ll also leave early. Most like usually you’ll also leave early. And the time you get with the lead will be fucked with. Okay, I was an under the radar person. I didn’t cause any drama. And that meant that I got a solid 10 to 20 times, 10 to 20 minutes with Ari every single time.
I didn’t have to fight for it. I didn’t get interrupted. You know, I just like, lined up when the producer said to line up, got my time, and it worked out well for me. So I’m just like, Erin, if you just don’t get riled up by being interrupted, you won’t get interrupted. They only do there’s a producer going behind Dev and being like, going again now, going again now.
Like how That’s just bachelor 101 and he had a brother who did it already. So that’s the kind of stuff I’ll look for. I’ll be like, clearly this is a producer manipulated moment. Just don’t fall for it. That’s all you have to do. And if you know enough about the show, you won’t. And the
ironic thing is Noah was an interrupter on.
Claire slash Taysha like he showed up on a group date that he wasn’t even a part of like, this is, this is what I mean. And then I don’t know if you remember this when Noah towards the end when Taysha had taken over and Claire had gone away. Remember the whole emotional intelligence bit with that Bennett guy when Bennett gave Noah a book about emotional intelligence and then they basically repeated the same storyline.
People were asking Because at the time it never registered with me. It wasn’t until readers pointed it out to me after the episode aired, Hey, Steve, remember when Noah’s brother when Noah received a book from Bennett on emotional intelligence, is it the same book that he then handed to his brother?
So his brother could hand it to Devin and it ended up not being the same book, but. Same exact concept. The fact that both Herb brothers were involved in a book handing over of emotional intelligence on the show. It’s just like, okay, this is a little bit played out.
Yeah. So that, so that was clearly planned then.
I mean, it’s such a bad look that I’m surprised. It just makes no sense why I would want to repeat it.
And you know, something else that was found out the book that Aaron handed to Devin, isn’t even a real book by a real author. The author’s name on the book, people like screenshot the book and they’re like, Googled it, not even a real book.
And the author’s name on the book is somebody that’s a producer on the show or somebody that works on the show. So like, again, they didn’t have to go to the lengths that they did for something so insignificant. And Aaron had this, you know, he kind of had this exit where, Hey, he’s going to leave the show and go to the air force and serve our country.
Yet he goes out with such a whimper of. Oh yeah. By the way, I know some guys aren’t here and she’s like, well, tell me. He’s like, nah, not going to do that. Like he could have had a way better exit that he did. And he went out like that. It just, just a bad three episodes for Aaron. If you’re asking me, I was
super bizarre.
I don’t, I mean, I don’t know why he would, why he would agree to that little trick. But,
and like you said, his brother was on the show. He had to have watched the show. He had to have known about this.
Yeah. And he’s like a really hot, smart guy. Like, why would he. He could have taken the other direction and like actually built a connection with her.
You know what I mean? There’s no reason he had to sabotage himself.
And the whole thing with, you know, Devin interrupting him when he was alone with Jen, then him coming back in to interrupt Devin and then Devin coming back. It was just, this is so clear what was happening. You knew producers were doing it.
You knew that they were going to send Devin in when it was his alone time with Jen. I just don’t get. You know, this is something we see every season. We know anytime someone interrupts, it’s strictly to piss off the other person because producers know it will get under the other person’s skin and it’s to advance some sort of storyline on the show.
This one in particular being Devin and Aaron don’t like each other or Aaron doesn’t like Devin. I think Devin seems to be unbothered by Aaron, but Aaron clearly didn’t like him. But yeah, this is, it’s petty stuff, but here we are in season 49 and that happens every season. So. Is
this season 49?
49? Jen is Jen is 21st, bachelorette and Joey was the 28th Bachelor.
So this is the 49th season of the show
combined. I see. I was like, I was, yeah. Combined two, and I’m not .
Yeah, no. Combined between the two combined. Ari was what, what number was he? 16th. 15th. No, he wasn’t 13 seasons ago. You weren’t on the show 13 years ago.
I was on the show six years ago.
Jesus. Ari was only six years.
So he would have been bachelor.
He was 22. Well, I’m sorry. It was season
two. I don’t know. Season 22.
That’s all I know.
Okay. Then yeah, he was the 22nd bachelor. Gosh. It also seems, okay. So that makes sense. Although it, I thought it was further back. Maybe I’m thinking of Nick season was Nick before or after Ari.
Nick was the season before Ari. Okay. Yeah, that’s yeah.
Cause my friend nominated me cause they wanted me to be on Nick’s season.
Thank God you weren’t. Um, so moving on with with this, obviously you said the men are just, there’s certain ones that you do like. But the pettiness between them and I, I said this this week and we, we, you and I haven’t really talked about this at all.
Cause you just finished watching it hours before we started recording here, the Sam and Virgin thing. It’s, it’s one thing to go on the show as a Virgin. We’ve seen that numerous times. It’s not really a big deal. Usually they’re probably not going to end up winning, but you know, they’re going to use it for a storyline.
The problem I have with Sam and is. Clearly a guy that got sucked in by production and was doing and saying things production was telling him to do, but to cast a guy, not only who’s a virgin, but who’s never been in love, never even been in a relationship. He said he didn’t even know how to hold a woman’s hand.
It’s like, I know, I know my producers cast him, but come on. He was never going to be a realistic choice for Jen. She was never going to pick him in a thousand years.
I thought it was ambiguous whether he was actually a sexual virgin. I mean, I don’t know if that’s been confirmed. I mean, oh, cause he
said.
Oh, that’s right. Cause he said yeah, I, I see what you’re saying.
Well, in the limo entrance, he was like, I’m a virgin psych. I’m a love version, which is like not better, you know? But I, I thought he was making a point that he has had sex at least. But then they kind of played it up with making it seem like this would be his first kiss of all time, which I don’t think is necessarily what was going on, but
yeah, I, I just.
To put on a shirt that says Jen’s husband and to give her a shirt that says Sam’s wife. I mean, look, we know this is all done by production, but he agreed to do it. And then he sat there at the party thinking that he was so far, I don’t know, ahead of the other guys. But thinking he had this giant connection, it’s like, read the room, man.
It wasn’t even close. I
thought the shirts thing was cute. I don’t have a problem with it.
But isn’t it a little bit much when you’ve never been in a relationship and now you’re telling somebody you’re my wife, like if you’re Jen and put yourself in Jen’s situation, if you’re Jen, would you have been like, this is a bit much?
Yes, but at the same time, the whole show is about finding a wife or whatever. So it just, I would have been like, okay, he’s playing on that theme, whatever. But not I’ve taken it serious. I mean, the whole falling and saying that he was falling in love thing was a little bizarre, but I felt kind of bad for him.
I mean, he was so clearly insecure on the show. And then finally had a date where he was like, okay, rugby, I can do rugby. I can, I can shine. That’s what this is about. You know, I think he just kind of got caught up in. Like, I think the person who plays this show really well is Devin. You know, he like, he gets presented with a date.
Like I loved this, the stripper date. Right. First of all, they all did amazing. That was, I mean, that would have been my worst. Worst nightmare of the date. Okay. And I wait as
a contestant or if you’re the lead and you had to watch it
Oh, I would love it. If I was the lead as a contestant, that would be my worst nightmare.
Like I have insecurities, I’m a terrible dancer Combining the two is just like I would hate it but Devin came out and he He did so many things. Well, a, he just made it a huge performance. B, he took his body image issues and put them on their head by being like wearing a thong. Like he went more naked than anybody else and see, he used it as a pathway into vulnerability and showing her that there’s more to him than just the goofy guy.
So I was like, he gets the point, you know, of all of this. It’s to have a good attitude and find an in for connection. So I think he did really well. Sam N seems to think like, Oh, the point of this date is to impress her. Like with how good I am at the activity, which is never the point on any of these dates.
Did you ever have a competitive? I don’t remember your, all your group dates. He, once you tell me, it’ll spark a memory. Did you guys ever have a, you know, a football game or something physical for you guys? What were the group dates that you did on RE season?
Okay.
Generic ones that you were on.
Well, we had wrestling, but it was core.
Oh,
that’s right. I remember the wrestling day with Kenny King, right?
No,
it wasn’t already season.
It was already seasoned, but Kenny King wasn’t there.
I thought Kenny showed up for a wrestling date. He was like the coach.
No, it was two women from that wrestling show.
Okay. Kenny King showed up on a different season for a wrestling date, but yes, I hear what you’re saying.
Yeah. I remember that now.
I initially was like, this is my worst nightmare, but then it was choreographed. So it’s actually really fun. And so it wasn’t a true competition. Then we had a bowling date and that was a competition, but it was boring.
That’s right. That was the crystal meltdown date. Yeah.
Yeah.
But the best part of that date is that Jenna got wasted. Okay. She got wasted and she was just like being crazy with the bowling ball and like, just having a blast. And we were, she was put on my team and my team was short staff. We were only four against five and people like Becca Martinez, who we assumed was athletic.
She was on the other team. And anyways, we’re like, we’re fucked. I’m a T you know, I’m terrible. Anything athletic. Okay. Including bowling. So I was like, this is going to be terrible. And then Jenna who’s wasted gets up and you know, it’s her turn. She throws a strike and then she comes back and she’s like, I’m like, what?
She’s like, amazing.
It was just like, strike, strike.
Oh, so she was like actually sandbagging. She was actually a good bowler. She just didn’t want to tell anybody. Or she had a good rent or she
actually
good.
It’s so good that she could do it wasted. So,
well, yeah, it is. Bowling is different. Bowling is a different sport.
It’s one of the few sports where you can actually get better. The more, the more drunk you get. That’s the amazing thing about bowling. Like you play baseball or basketball drunk, you’re not going to do anything correctly, but you can bowl drunk because all you got to do is throw a ball down the lane. But you know, it’s funny because we talk about edits on this show and obviously one of the big topics has been this whole Devin versus Sam M edit.
You’ve seen what Sam M’s family has been writing on social media. And it kind of brings me back to your season because. You know, crystal got a villain edit and crystal was somebody that was getting a ton of heat online for the way that she was coming across on the show. But hers got taken to, I remember her making a post about it, like she was getting death threats and stuff like that, which is totally undeserved.
I don’t care how anybody acts on a reality show, especially this one, nobody deserves to be told to die. Over it. It’s I don’t care how bad you act, even if you’re calling other everyone in the house names and you’re saying, I hate all these people doesn’t mean that you deserve to die. Maybe people can just be like, hey, you should check yourself and watch the way you treat other people.
Just something like that. Some sort of constructive criticism, not go kill yourself. But you know, with, with, with Devin and Sam, I yeah. I liken it, like I said, to Crystal. When you were seeing what was playing out with Crystal, was that the Crystal that you remembered filming with? Or were you, when you were watching it, were you like, oh, I didn’t realize he was, she was this bad?
Or were you like, oh, wow, the show is doing her dirty?
No, she was definitely worse than I thought she was in person, but.
Oh. I
mean, in person, she was more abrasive. And like, I mean, in her ITMs, she said mean things. I mean, like nothing that affected me in any, you know, in any way, but she certainly said mean things.
Well, she’s saying things, did she call people out by name? Did she say particular contestants or was she just kind of one of those contestants that in ITMs? Was just talking about how, basically how great she was and nobody could compete with her and Ari’s connection and stuff like that. I kind of remember it, but I kind of don’t.
I think the latter. I mean, she may have had a throw down with like, I think she did with like Caroline and Tia once, but I don’t know. I mean, We knew she was the villain on the show. We were like, that’s definitely, that’s definitely crystal.
And why did you know this? Because she was keeping to herself and she was clearly one of the girls that’s like, I’m not here for, to make friends.
I’m here.
No, no, she tried to make friends. I mean, I, you know, I was friends with her. I was friendly enough with her. She was my partner in wrestling. She had an abrasive personality. She had a sickeningly sweet voice as everyone might remember, which I don’t think was her genuine voice necessarily. And she wanted to keep kind of, she came across as condescending and the voice didn’t help.
And she like wouldn’t tell people certain things. So people felt like she was being conniving or something. And then, but the, the, the way we knew she was a, well, a, she got into like a tiff with T and Caroline early on. And then B, she started unraveling.
What was her, what did her unraveling consist of?
Well, the whole bowling date thing was like a disaster. So she started venting about Ari then. And again, like, blaming Ari for letting the other group come with us to the cocktail party. It was our team that was supposed to be there. Because of, because of Jenna’s strikes.
That’s right. The winning, the winning team was only supposed to get time with him.
And then they basically changed his mind and said, you’re all coming to the after party.
Yeah. Yeah. So then she like stayed in her robe and obviously all of that was encouraged. But I mean, one way, you know, somebody is a villain is, you know, You’re dragged out of whatever you’re doing and told, Hey, go talk about crystal.
And you’re all riled up about crystal. And then she’s brought up out in her bathrobe to sit in the midst of us. But yeah, she would just like, she started getting like angrier and more freaked out. And then she would like sit alone. And then we would make her sit alone because she became a bit of a social pariah, which I’ll always give Becca Kufrin credit for, because she was like, guys, we’re not doing this.
We’re not like going to be sitting here at the airport at a table while Crystal sits alone. So she like invited crystal over. So that was really nice moment. Like, I mean, I don’t know. I didn’t, I mean,
I just, yeah, I mean, you weren’t in, I don’t remember you having any sort of beef with her either on camera or even off camera.
It was just one of these things where I just look at it and, you know, it was a different time back then, obviously you said like six years ago,
but now
you see the, the Sam M and, you know, the brief. Time you and I have talked about this season. You’re just like, I don’t even see Sam M as the villain. I don’t know why his family’s getting so upset over, over this expand on that more.
I mean, if you are to pick somebody this season, that I guess is a villain. It’s, it’s gotta be him at this point.
I thought it
was going to
be Aaron for a hot sec
who I found technically he was.
Oh, okay. Well, he was way worse than anything Sam’s been doing.
Yeah,
I mean, I could pick 10 villains worse than what Sam is doing.
That’s why I’m so like, why is his family absolutely losing it over his edit? Yes. He’s not. I feel like he’s giving the show. Material because he keeps saying, you know, his line, the main, you got to keep the main thing, the main thing. And then he has that when the guys are on the group date last episode, and he’s sitting there with Devin and all right, man, what’s your problem with me?
Devin’s like, I don’t have a problem with you. Yeah, you do. And he’s like, man, your name, your name’s not even in my mouth, bro. And it’s like, yes it is because all you do is keep talking about him. So
you know, I see some scenarios between Devin and who was that super hot guy, Brayden. Okay. Where I’m sure both of them were annoying because there’s a whole cohort of men who are annoyed by, by.
By both of them for, for Brayden, it was all of them. And both of them have this characteristic where they are socially abrasive. When it’s in a group setting, they’re loud, they’re showy. They are in some ways unapologetically themselves, but it comes across as socially unaware and like uncool. Essentially, but they actually have really high social acuity in particular ways.
So I remember when Brayden would get into conflicts with other men, he, to me, made them look like the idiot. He’d be like, listen, I’m just being myself. Like, I know you’re the one yelling. No, you’re the one. Making this a huge distraction and he would just kind of remain calm and kind of turn their words on them.
And that’s kind of what I see Devin doing. I mean, he has made some digs that have pissed them off. Like my favorite was when he got the, he got the group rose and was like. As Thomas said, I think that this is really indicative of the kind of man Jen wants it was just like, okay, like, obviously he knew he was going to piss people off with that remark, but it was also pretty funny and clever.
And then, you know, he like really brings it when he’s with her. And these guys don’t understand that you can be one thing in a group of men, you can be an entirely different thing with a woman. And you know, if he was being slimy or you know, talking about other women or something like that, then that’s something to bring to her.
But if he’s just kind of annoying, that’s really not. And I think it’s almost
like on Jen to find out like if she, if she doesn’t find him annoying and you guys do, then why do you keep telling her, Hey, he’s annoying. It’s like, she doesn’t seem to care. Cause she clearly likes him. I mean, it’s
clear. I liked heaven.
I think he’s great. I mean, but I’m sure he’s like, I’m sure there’s an element about him that’s annoying and that has been annoying, but I think he did a really good job also of pointing out that everyone else is making character attacks and he wasn’t. And everyone else is like claiming that they know what Jen wants after meeting her for approximately 25 minutes and saying that like, she wouldn’t want a guy like him.
And he’s like, what? Jen, why are you telling me who I am and why are you telling me who she is? Like,
yeah, it makes perfect sense. And I think one of the other things is it’s not like we weren’t warned of this in the very first episode in Devin’s intro video. Do you remember what he said? He’s like, I’m loud.
I’m basically like, I’m a loud guy. I’m a center of attention. And really that’s all he’s been. He’s just kind of loud. He likes to take over a room, but it’s not something we didn’t know he was going to do because he said it
in his
intro video.
Yeah, it’s the same story with Brayden and Brayden winds up being a bachelor hero, I think.
So it’s these guys who are like, yeah, they’re kind of loud and annoying, but that’s not actually a crime. And then they’re really good with women. And they’re actually kind of okay at conflict management. I mean,
Yeah, I think when you look at, I mean, if you were to look at Devin and compare him to the average male contestant on this show, he is, he doesn’t fit in that box.
He doesn’t have six pack abs. He’s not conventionally like attractive, but yet I think the reason he’s winning over Jen is number one, he’s showering her
with attention.
And He, I think on this last date, if you really watch it and study the last date in episode four, where they did the whole culture thing in New Zealand and even on their, the night portion of their dinner date.
You compare his night portion of his dinner date with Sam’s earlier in the episode. First off, Jen was the one talking to Sam the whole time. It didn’t sound like he had much to say and granted it could have been the edit. And it could have been a five hour conversation for all we know, but we can only go off what they show us.
But Devin seemed way more interested in getting to know Jen, ask questions about her and Sam, you know, I understand that Jen was telling her story about always picking the wrong guys and always having trouble, you know, guy having trouble with men in the past. And, you know, Sam was there and like, yeah, no, I understand.
No, you’re worthy or whatever. But Sam, as people have pointed out, seems to speak in Nicholas Sparks books and movie quotes when he talks to women.
Yeah, I mean, he’s just a smooth operator. Like he, I mean, he, I think he knows how to be cool. He knows how to be attractive. It comes easily to him. And so that’s what he’s doing.
Whereas Devin had an opposite coming into the earth, you know, he wasn’t attractive, he definitely wasn’t cool. And he actually had to develop a personality. And I’m not saying Sam doesn’t have one, but we just, I haven’t seen it.
