PODCAST #423 WITH STEPHEN FISHBACH TRANSCRIPT
You are listening to the reality. Steve podcast with your host reality. Steve, he’s got all the latest info and behind the scenes juice on grants, upcoming season of the bachelor and interviewing some of your favorite reality stars. Now here’s reality. What’s
up everybody. Welcome to podcast number four 23.
I’m your host. Thank you all for tuning in. This is our bi annual podcast with Steven Fishback, former survivor contestant on token jeans and Cambodia or second chance. We have them on at the end of every survivor season in the fall and in the spring to talk about the finale. And that’s exactly what we’re going to do coming up in a little bit, as we talk about the survivor 47 finale, and we will get to all that momentarily.
So a couple of things I want to go over. We do talk about everything that needs to be talked about when it comes to the Survivor 47 finale. I purposely did not want to listen to anything that Steven said after the finale aired last Wednesday. And I did not go to any of his tweets because I didn’t want to see his opinion.
I wanted to get it for the first time when I was interviewing him. Like I do every season because I just never want to know going in. And we start right at the end in the beginning of this podcast. I go right to the end of. Rachel’s win. Where does it rank? Was operation Italy the best move of the new era?
Did Sam deserve more than one? Final tribal vote. We dive into a lot of things about the season also kind of touch on season 50, who from this season do we think has a really good shot to be on season 50, which we know is going to be an all star season. So a lot to get to with Steven Fishback. So that’ll be coming up in a few minutes.
Daily Roundup was posted an hour, a couple hours ago, some sad news in Bachelor Nation. Kelly Flanagan’s father passed yesterday. If you’ve been following her on Instagram, you knew that her father’s health had taken a turn for the worse rather quickly in the last couple of weeks. And he succumbed yesterday.
She wrote a very, very heartfelt Instagram post yesterday. I read that if you haven’t read it. A lot of people commented and a lot of people have, you know, liked it. So, I read that on the podcast. Just obviously she’s been through a lot this year with a breakup a couple months ago, we covered her going on chicks in the office podcast to find out this relationship that she thought was pretty solid that she had gotten back into was nothing more than, I don’t want to call it a farce.
I don’t know enough about it, but when she described the interview or the relationship on the chicks in the office interview, it obviously ended up being this. Relationship that she had no idea what was really going on behind the scenes. She’s heard from women since then. It just was ugly all around. So she’s obviously had a rough couple months to end the year.
If you want to reach out, make a comment on her posts, by all means do show do so she’s been through a lot. I do also talk about one thing that December 24th plays a major role in one of the greatest episodes of TV that I can recall. If you’re a lost fan, you know exactly what I’m talking about. And that is the episode called the constant, which I believe was in season four, I could be wrong.
Cause I’m lost jumps all around the place. And I always forget, but December 24th, 2004 is a very, very important date for lost ease. And I saw it pop up on my Twitter feed and I was like, Oh yeah, that’s right. It was that that was the day that Desmond told Penny, he’s going to call her and she needs to pick up.
And you’re just like, what, what are you talking about, Steve? Well, if you didn’t watch lost, you’d have be clueless what I’m talking about right now, be Chinese to you really, because it’s, I started seeing all the stuff on December 24th on my Twitter feed. And. I was like, I got to go read the episode recap.
Cause I got to refresh my memory. I knew the basics of what happened, but I want to refresh my memory about what was going on. And then when I started refreshing my memory by reading stuff about the episode, I was like, I got to go watch it. And so I rewatched it yesterday and I’m telling you, it’s probably one of the five best episodes.
Episodic television episodes I’ve ever seen. It is so good the way it is shot, the way it is done, the way it incorporates time travel and everything just fits in perfectly. It is such a good episode. If you’re a lost fan and you haven’t watched lost in years, like me, go back and watch the constant just because we’re two days removed from December 24th, and that was obviously a very big day.
And then also on the daily roundup. Something I talked about at the end of my podcast yesterday that I said, you know what? I’ll talk about this tomorrow because I want to dive into this and that is my beef with a Christmas classic song and Yeah, I’m still really having a hard time understanding the lyrics to this song and why they were written The first half of the song, great, very positive, kind of somber, but at least positive.
And then the song just takes a nosedive into the ocean with some of these lyrics. And this was a song for charity. So maybe I’m missing something. I need some help here. Anyway, that’s on the daily roundup today. I hope you went and check that out already. If not go listen to it later on today. Not going to waste any more time.
Let’s get going. Podcast number four 23. Here he is our resident survivor expert. We bring them on at the end of every season to discuss what we just saw. You saw him first on survivor token genes and survivor Cambodia. It is Steven Fishback.
Steven. Hello. It’s such an honor to be here now. Now, now in video now in living color,
I’m joining everyone else in 2020 florida On the video train.
It was basically right after I think in july I started so kind of maybe a month after I I last had you on when we went over survivor 46, but I purposely have stayed away from anything that you have said regarding survivor 47, because I wanted to hear it for the first time from you on this podcast, since I know you’ve talked about it numerous times already, but I’m going to start out at the end here with this.
Okay. Was Rachel’s win the best victory? And the best winner of the new era.
It’s definitely competitive. I think that’s a great, I do think that’s definitely, you know, she’s definitely up there with so interesting. I mean, I, I have trouble like ranking people because, you know, I have always kind of felt like if you can get there and you can make the case, you know, you did something right.
And maybe we didn’t see it all when, when in the edit, but I mean, Rachel played such a stellar game. You know, she played this like underdog game. She had to win four immunities, you know, tying the record. She had a spectacular idol play where she saved herself. She was, she had no allies at one point. She had all the allies at another point.
She had a lot of like really creative moves, like that move where she. Faked out or she kind of assessed the votes with her shot in the dark. You know, she went up and play the shot in the dark and then looked at the reactions to see if she needed to play her idol. If she was, if she was a a target, that tribal council.
So, I mean, I think it’s up there, you know, you also have players like D who were in a much more controlling position throughout the game, you know, who were able to kind of dictate the flow in a way that Rachel really wasn’t able to. And I think some people think, well. What is the more definitive survivor skill?
Is it controlling the votes? But on the other hand, you know, Dee was really insulated. She had a lot of Allies who stuck with her and Rachel just didn’t have that. So, I mean, Rachel certainly is up there for best winner of the, of the new era. I saw Shannon Gates who, or Shannon Gus, who’s a commentator on survivor.
She said best underdog player potentially ever in this, in the series. You know, you’ve got, and I think that’s a really good category to put her in, like just thinking of different play styles, you know, she is maybe the best underdog, certainly of the new era and like potentially of all time.
I’m sure you’ve seen Dominic Abate’s tweet.
This came out before the finale. I don’t know if it was days before, but it was before the finale when he was just kind of going back and forth with people on Twitter. I don’t think there was arguments going on, but he was just saying kind of, well, what constitutes a great survivor player in your mind?
And he listed. Three things. I don’t, did you see this tweet or no,
I saw, well, I saw him, the, the, the bold proclamation he made at the end. I know you’re leading up to, but I don’t remember what the three things were that he kind of listened. Okay. So he
said, what exactly is it that everyone thinks constitutes a great survivor game?
Number one, a dominant game where the winner was in control of every move in every vote. Number two, a balanced player that was great strategically and socially and worked their way through the game in a fairly clean manner. Number three, a player who was at the bottom for most of the game, but was able to overcome using non traditional techniques to get to the end.
And then four would be other when you look at that. Which one of those sticks out to you, which is, is one of those considered better for you than others? Which one would you prefer as a, a great survivor game?
I think that’s the ultimate criterion for a great survivor game is can you adapt to the game as it’s presented to you?
You know, can you take all of your expectations and hopes and change according to what happens? And I think that is really. You know, that Rachel demonstrated, you know, absolutely. And, you know, people say, well, she got really lucky with his idol clue that she found in her fries. She, she got super lucky when Saul saved her at the, at the tribe swap or at the, at the split tribal council.
She also got super, super, super unlucky by being the only person in that split tribal council that was from her tribe, where all of the other group was from the Tucu tribe, you know? So like, was Sol saving her lucky or was she just insanely unlucky and then kind of boomeranged back? So, you know, I think there’s luck in Survivor.
You have to get really lucky to win the game. Rachel made the most of her luck and she was able to get out of situations where she was unlucky.
Yeah, I When I look at Rachel’s game, I was just going into the finale. I said, The only way Rachel doesn’t win is if she loses final four immunity and they just say we can’t beat her.
So they end up, you know, well, then she actually would have been gone to fire and according to everybody based on it, what everyone was saying out there, she would have beaten all of them in fire as well. So I was just convinced she was going to win now. What I was surprised at, and I think a lot of people were and come to find out, we know now why it was seven to one, I was surprised that Sam only got one vote, like going in, I was thinking, well, he’s got to have Genevieve and Andy’s vote.
They were operation Italy. Why wouldn’t they be on his side? Genevieve was his confidant the whole game. And then I thought he had Sierra. Like I thought it was Sierra and Sam. I was just like. Were you as surprised as me that the vote was 7 1?
I thought he would get a couple of those, you know, you know, Rachel and Andy also had a thing and I did think like Andy’s heart was with Rachel more than it was with Sam.
You know, right out of the gate, you know, episode one, Andy goes to Rachel and tries to like say, she says to her, like, you know, I feel closer to you than, than I do to anybody else out here. And she kind of rebuffed him because, you know, it was like too much, you know, nobody really was much from a survivor perspective, you know, he, he needed.
Too much attention from her and that’s, that’s dangerous to your game, but, but I, you know, the few of the votes like Sierra, who was with Sam all the way, you know, you kind of want those loyalty votes. I do think what happens is that Ponderosa where the jury stays while the game is still ongoing, there does seem to be kind of a group think that takes over.
And I think if you are maybe a little more Persuadable. You can kind of get caught up in that. You know, it sounds like, you know, from what we’ve heard that everyone knew that Rachel was going to win and that basically everybody was voting for Rachel, which, you know, of course makes Kyle’s vote. It sounds like it was deliberately to give Sam the runner up prize.
But, but yeah, so I wonder if some of those votes kind of were like, just like the group was feeling so positively for Rachel rather than they were, you know, kind of.
Well, that’s what Kyle has said. Post show. He said, I knew everyone was voting for Rachel and I felt that Sam played a much better game than Sue and I felt like Sam shouldn’t have to split second place money with Sue.
So I wanted to give him second place by himself. He has admitted that and that’s why he voted for him. So I have no problem with that. I, I guess I was just surprised. I knew she was going to win. I thought he would at least have Sierra and or Genevieve’s and then maybe one other, I thought he would lose five, two or four, three.
I did not see seven, one and the one come to find out was just a sympathy vote really for him, which is, I don’t know, surprising. I, if you asked me to run you back, Sam’s game. And be like, why did he deserve to win? I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t really know if there was anything about his game that made him a winner, but compared to what Rachel had on her resume and she was, she was really, really good.
She was somebody that clearly people knew she was going to win. Like we hear that all the time around. I don’t know, five, six people left, like can’t go to the finals with her. She’s going to win. And how many times does that person end up winning? Seems to happen, you know, a lot. And I, I don’t have any problem with her as the winner.
And I thought she was one of the best winner we had in this new era.
So you, you agree with that assessment. You liked Dom’s assessment that she is. I mean, the only thing that was annoying about Kyle’s vote was that it deprives her of being the first ever. Female in the U S to get a shutout victory. You know, there have been a bunch of guys who have done it.
J J T against me. Cochran had it. Jeremy in Cambodia had it. 10 votes, by the way, against you 10, zero, right? No, only seven, zero against me. Well, you was
only
seven. Yeah. This was back in the old school format. Who
had a 10, zero win? Somebody did.
Cochran and Jeremy might have both had had 10, zero wins. Yeah.
And I’m trying to think of anybody else got, got the shutout, but I think there’s, there are, there’s definitely a few others who’ve gotten the shutout. I’m just not thinking of,
yeah.
But, but yeah, sadly, like, you know, you kind of want that history to be made or I want that. And some people like the record store, I feel like this was, I told, this would have been a great moment for them, especially because Kyle has said he thought Rachel deserved to win, you know, like he said, he believed that Rachel deserved to win.
So like, why not give her the vote? Why not give her that, that, that, that record? It’s kind of a bummer because, but, but you know, the jurors can always vote how they, you know, how they want to vote. That’s, that’s sort of my, my perspective when we were
talking about Dominic’s tweet from earlier. And we talk about that third point that he made about the underdogs, just off the top of my head, who were great survivor winners who had that storyline?
I guess Chris Underwood would be one. Right. He would be technically a number three,
your dog. Like he’s sort of like a dog from outer space, you know, like he’s like a side dog, you know, just like no relationship with the game at all, then comes Gabler. Would he be considered for that? I mean, I think the ones that, you know, it’s interesting like when, because so at that tribal council, there’s a question from Andy where he says, you know, you, maybe the game you’re most like is Mike Holloway and Ben Driebergen.
And I think maybe it’s those two. Now, what’s interesting about both of their games is that they kind of were in that top dog position until basically the middle of the game. Both of them were really in dominant spots. Then they kind of were identified as threats and everyone was against them. But. Going into their finales, they really were the underdogs that, you know, in Mike’s case, he had, he had to win out.
He had to win a bunch of challenges. Ben had to play like a lot of idols, you know, Ben bombs for those who, who remember back to then. So, you know, I think that those guys are maybe the ones who have the most similar games to Rachel. I mean, Gabler is interesting because Gabler is sort of like, he is kind of an underdog in that way.
But not in the sense where he really had to like fight back, you know, in the way that Rachel did, where she was a target, everyone was gunning for her and he really had to fight to survive. Gabriel kind of was just sort of a surprise, you know, to the people at the final tribal, right? Like in that way, he was like, where did this guy come from?
You know, but I don’t know if he didn’t really have to like have that, that sort of like, you know, scrappy underdog tail.
What about going further back, the guy who won on the season with, I think it was Eliza’s season, Chris Daugherty.
I think it’s Chris Van, Chris, Chris from Vanuatu. Yeah, Chris Daugherty from Vanuatu.
He was like what, it was like six women left in him and he survived that whole thing. He would be considered and definitely an underdog. He was never, I don’t remember him ever being in control of.
Yeah, he just had to kind of flip back and forth between these groups and just, you know, pull and yeah, I don’t think anyone thought that he would win and he was, you know, the last guy that eliminated all the other guys.
He was the sort of last straggler and just, you know, through his wiles, you know, was able to kind of snake in there to the end. I think that’s a great example though. Like, you know, those are the games that I sort of. Grew up kind of thinking we’re awesome. Were the ones where it’s just like through strategic manipulate, like that was the kind of underdog I thought was like, wow, like that person like was managed to be in this vote and then that vote, and then just kind of like weave their way forward.
And I, I never really valued the, the immunity winner, but like, It is true. It’s a great game. And like, that’s part of the game. Winning immunities, playing aisles is part of the game.
Since you’re the survivor historian here, and you can recall a lot of things from the past, you know, I, we talk about Rachel and obviously that’s debatable.
Some people will say, yes, greatest winner of new era. Some might say she’s up there, but I don’t know if I could put her first. Here’s something that I don’t know if it’s debatable, but I could easily be forgetting because blindsides happen on this show all the time. However, can we say that operation Italy was the greatest move of the new era?
Because this wasn’t just a blind side. This was a faction of three overtaking a four person majority that number one had two idols, Sue and Rachel had idols at that point. They had a block of votes. With Rachel and, you know, and Rachel had immunity. I, when it was happening on the show, I’m like, well, this is the way edit goes.
They want you going into every tribal council thinking there are options. Very rarely do you go in and be like, yeah, it’s, it’s a done deal. They want you to think there’s at least a possibility it could go another way. And this one seemingly was like, Wait, Sam, Genevieve and Andy have talked this out, they are running it, we saw Andy go back to camp, lay the groundwork, say exactly what he needed to say, but then you’re always in the back of your head thinking like, well maybe editing isn’t showing us something because they don’t want to give away that this plan is going to blow up in their face.
And it worked, and I was just like, is that the greatest move in the new era
that you can remember? I mean, so I will say when it happened, I tweeted, you know, this is the greatest move in the new era. And I got a lot of responses about that, explaining why it wasn’t. So there’s a lot of like other good moves in the new era.
Like, you know, when Marianne blindsided Omer, for example, in season 42. It was, you know, potentially a game winning move for her. Right, exactly, exactly. You really gotta be in the way. And there were like even things that I didn’t remember. I was like, oh yes, that was a good move. I had no recollection of that.
like even with the attention that I pay to the game. But you know, what was so exciting about that move to me was the way that Andy had to sell it, you know, really went and to each person in that kind of old school strategy that we’re talking about, you know, to each person and sort of like sell it.
just a little, just to get up to split the votes and where he wanted them. And very coy, kind of like, o Look what I’ve got in my of slips it away so she c lest you see that it’s no what sort of argues again Is that Andy has voted out next. So this is like Andy’s big move. Right. And then he’s immediately voted out the next episode.
Now that wasn’t totally blow back from operation Italy. It honestly was more blow back from him taking credit for operation Italy. Right. Like he, like at the start of the subsequent episode, it, it seems like Andy is able to kind of downplay his role. In the blind side. So nobody’s worried about him, but then when he thinks Rachel’s going home, he like argues to Rachel about what a great strategist he is.
Cause he wants to get her on the jury, you know, as an actor for him. And it totally blows up because she’s got her idol. And then she’s like, Oh, you made such a compelling case about why you’re a huge target that now I’m going to vote you out. So, you know, that, and that way it’s like not a great move because it immediately sort of unravels Andy’s game.
But you know, just in terms of the excitement and the level and the type of strategy that it took, I definitely think it’s up there.
Yeah. And the way that, you know, Sam and Genevieve still playing it and selling it at Tribal when Jeff asks, does anybody have a uni idol to play? Yeah. And then he looks at her and she’s like, I’m good.
I’m good with this. Right. I’m good with the decision, like still playing it. Not that anything could have changed at that point that the votes had already been made. But just to not let anybody in on it and then. I thought it was just great TV and maybe that’s why I added like, this could be one of the best moves we’ve ever seen.
I
think it’s definitely up there. I mean, and certainly like in terms of the excitement around it, it’s got, it’s up there as like a great episode where, like you said, you just do not think it’s going to pan out, you know, yeah. Okay. The exciting plan. And then, you know, it blows up, we get it. And then it actually,
it actually plays out.
It’s unbelievable. And in their confessionals. Leading up to that tribal, I think all three of them were saying so many things have to go right for this to work and they all did,
and it was
just, and it was, they were saying after the fact, I remember reading online, like, It was even that much better because it was only one vote off.
It’s not like there was 10 people left and you pulled this off. The, there was literally a one vote swing to where if they did what they should have done, that group of four, they could have avoided this. And they chose to stick with the let’s split the votes when there was only one vote. Oh, He didn’t have to split it with numerous other people.
It was just, they had to go to, to, or else it doesn’t work.
Right. I mean, yeah, I mean, it was perfect. Like, and that’s the thing people say, well, what, I mean, you know, whenever someone doesn’t like, and he doesn’t win. So people are going to go back and say, well, that was a mistake because maybe if he hadn’t done that, he would have won.
But. I thought it was the right move for Andy at that time because Andy just did not have, Andy had this great amount of self awareness, which is really hard on survivor, you know, because everyone, you know, it’s such a hard game. You’re constantly struggling out there. Every vote you’re a part of, or even the votes you’re not a part of, you feel like you’ve done something like you’ve worked so hard just to stay there and to have the self awareness that Andy did to say, Oh, Nobody on that jury respects me, you know, I need to do something and whether I go out next or, you know, maybe this sets me up to win.
I have to do something to like prove that I deserve to win this game because I’ve got to build up my credibility with the jury. You know, I think that it really is the sign of a great survivor player who knows that who is aware of what the jury perceives him as and is able to kind of react to that.
Do you believe that, I mean, I, I think this now coming to find out and reading all the post show interviews that they’ve all done and kind of what we talked about earlier, Ponderosa is kind of more of a group think, and I think everybody pretty much knows going in, you know, they set it there and I feel like we get that every season.
We see when they did go to cast final votes, some of them struggling with their vote, seemingly now looking back, it looks like that was more of an acting job. They all knew they were voting for Rachel. I don’t think. They struggled. They might’ve been told by production to make it seem like they were struggling, but you can’t all be struggling and then vote seven, one.
I just, you would think that some people would be voting for somebody else. I don’t think they were struggling as much, but I, I really do think that that was more of. Maybe for TV purposes. I don’t know. It’s the impression I got when watching those final votes. Did it, did it occur to you? I was like, wait a second.
Are you really struggling this much? Do you really think, do you really think some of them didn’t have an idea who they were voting for? No, they definitely all knew. I
mean, it’s, I mean, Sam had a phenomenal tribal council, right? And I do think like, if they went in expecting to vote for Rachel. And Sam was so good that I think like, maybe it kind of like, they just wanted to like sit for a minute and think with it, I seem to remember it.
Maybe I’m misremembering that Sierra was the one who notably struggled, unless I’m misremembering this. And like, maybe she felt the most obligation to vote for Sam, you know? So she wanted to like play it up a little bit. Like, so when he’s watching it back, he’s not going to feel totally betrayed by her because they had the closest relationship out there.
But yeah, I don’t, I mean, I’m trying to think of who else really Kind of hammed it up in the, in the voting booth. I don’t, I don’t seem to remember. I think it really was, I think it was Sierra probably who did it the most.
Sam has said post show that was the one vote. I’m really surprised that he said, we’re cool now, but.
Yeah, in the moment I thought I was getting Sierra’s I’m kind of disappointed that I didn’t and
you can say we’re cool now, but I still remember Aaron Lobdell not voting for me and survive. I’m still like, yeah, we’re cool now, but I’m still salty about it. It’s
been
like 15 years.
You know, you had mentioned final tribal and it’s funny because like I said, I thought Rachel was going to win going in.
But the only way she didn’t win that game was if she lost five, she didn’t win four out of four immunity and then lost fire. But according to everybody there, she was going to win fire. So they’re sitting there at final tribal. Sue is basically edited out of final tribal. The only thing we hear Sue say is on three different occasions, I’m 59.
Like while she kept talking, the only answers we got out of her was her age. It’s like, great. When Sam is up there. And everybody is in agreement that Sam won the final tribal. I mean, I don’t think it’s even close. It’s not that Rachel did bad. It’s just that Sam did so much better and was excellent. And then when he started presenting his case of.
I’ve had 10 votes against me at four different tribals. Like I was like, Oh, okay. Thank you for recapping that for me because I wouldn’t have remembered. I thought he absolutely destroyed one of the best final tribal arguments I’ve ever heard. And it got him one sympathy vote. Like that’s what sucks for me.
I just, I would have appreciated if he got more.
Yeah, no, I’m with you. I’m with, I really thought it was going to be a close vote. And I think that would have been a, you know, certainly a more exciting ending, of course and I, I, I think he did deserve it, at least from the final tribal council perspective.
He really argued really well. I thought he did a good job of puncturing holes in her arguments, you know, when she said, you know, well, Sam didn’t You know, Sam wanted me out and here I am. And he’s like, well, yeah, well, you wanted me out here. I am, you know, neither of us got our way. We were both against each other.
You know, I think Sam compellingly said, I’ve been an underdog and a target this whole time. You know, he said I voted correctly every single time. That was the other
thing. Yeah.
There is an asterisk to that because he didn’t vote every single time. So, you know, some of his voting correctly was because he didn’t vote.
But, but so he, he you know, but, but he, I thought he really, he made a great case for himself.
I was like, wow, this is, thank you for reminding me of this because I didn’t remember all that. And, and he kind of basically said, my game is different from her. She, I don’t want to, I don’t want to say he accused her of lucking out, but he did say her, what was his exact wording?
Her game was a game of, did he say it was a game of luck or, well, I don’t remember. Yeah. It was something along the lines of, Hey. She got Saul’s you know, she got, she got the vote from Saul to save her. She found something in a, in a, you know, a basket of fries or whatever, where my game didn’t have to include getting quote unquote advantages like that
and
even argued
against immunity wins.
Right. It’s like, I didn’t, I didn’t need to win immunity. I like found a way to through the votes, you know, in spite of not having immunity, which I actually always have felt like I kind of made the same argument myself, like, you know, I felt like that’s a compelling argument, you know, like if you can find a way without immunity, like, why does not that not Is that not as good as winning an immunity?
But, but the immediate, but he should be on the other hand, like you don’t get to discount the immunity win because that’s a part of the game. Like it is really a part of it. And what I think is so cool about survivor is that every jury kind of gets to decide for themselves what they value. Do you think it’s great that someone can win immunities?
Or do you think that kind of like is, you know, gives them a cheat code and that winning, you know, doing strategic old stuff is more important. I mean, that’s, that’s the jurors decision.
Yeah, that’s the debate until the end of time with this show is every season is different. Every jury is different and it’s what they value.
But like you said, when they’re all there at Ponderosa, it does become a group think and it’s almost like a jury at a trial, you know, being sequestered and being like, okay, well, Most part, juries have to come to a 12 0 decision or you get a hung jury. And when you’re all talking, it seems like some people can easily be swayed about other people.
It’s why, you know, you and I’ve talked about this in the past, numerous times about how I’ve always asked you, like, Steven, when are we ever going to get a close vote on this show? It’s never four, three, it’s always seven or six, one, or just, and it’s probably because of, you know, Of Ponderosa and last last season was
5 3 and you know, with all the drama around Maria being the swing vote, you know, you know, which would have actually handed Charlie the win that was an exciting, exciting final tribal council.
And also, like we were saying, you know, they never changed their votes. For the first time ever, you know, when Jeff asked that question of who changed their votes, like a bunch of people raised their hands at that, at that. So, 46 was sort of a very strange outlier season for a lot of ways, reasons. And that’s, that’s one of the many, the many examples of why,
which brings me to the, something we always talk about in regards to the finale, which seems to be getting worse and worse.
And that is the reunion show. So back in the day. We know that they’ve just, just essentially killed the live reunion show. I, I think for 50, you almost have to, nobody wants to see this special 50 season, 50 edition, that’s going to have all former cast members. I can’t imagine they’re going to do another let’s just film it out there, but I hope you’re right.
I really hope
you’re right. Cause I think that you, you know, you’re, well, anyway, I hope you’re right.
Well, I don’t know if you, We’re looking at the timer on this. So I watch it central time, seven to nine, two hour finale. When they started the reunion show, it was. 8 39. They went from 8 39 to 8 45 and they took a commercial break and then they came back at 8 49 and went to 8 53.
So that’s four minutes. The first time was six minutes and they took another commercial break and they came back at 8 56 to 8 58, which was just a two minute promo. For season 48. So not only did you, can you say, Oh my God, the reunion show was 20 minutes. No, it wasn’t 20 minutes. It was 10 minutes of a reunion show.
That’s just ridiculous. And it bothers me that Jeff says. The reason why we went to this and we’re recording the reunion show out there is because it’s so real and it’s so raw and you can’t be influenced by social media. It’s like, great. Then why are you giving it only 10 minutes?
Right. Yeah. If it’s so wrong, so incredible.
Yeah, that’s, it’s so, that’s a great point. Yeah. It’s so generic too. I mean, it really felt like just another tribal council, you know, like, what is it like to blindside someone, you know, like that level of question, you know, what does it feel like to be on survivor, you know, like it’s the same questions that he asks.
Every single tribal council. And I mean, I get it. It’s obviously so much cheaper, you know, they don’t have to like produce a whole hour long show in, in Los Angeles. They don’t have to fly the 16 people
out.
Yeah. And they don’t have to pay the contestants. You know, we used to get 10, 000 checks just to show up at that thing.
And you know, that’s, that’s you know, whatever, 200, 000 right there. So, the, yeah, so. Obviously for cost saving purposes, that’s, that’s the big reason they do it. I, I kind of, I like you, I sort of just wish he would like own up to that, you know, because I miss the reunion show. I thought it was so fun.
You know, I love like the cut between these like drawn emaciated contestants after starving for, you know, back then it was 39 days in the wild to these, you know, people who have been clearly binge eating for the last three months and just they’re in their, like, I like, you know, I also like that they’re confronting each other, you know, Jeff says, well, this is more raw because, you know, but, but not really, because they’ve all been living this Kumbaya existence.
They’re all like applauding each other. And then what actually happens is people go back to their homes. They. Remember, Oh, this is my family. Like those people are kind of strangers to me. You know, they watch each other on television, talking crap about each other. You know what you said? What about me? You know, you know, how could you like, and then they show up to this finale.
And of course, like everyone is all very polite, you know, they’re all very aware of social media now, but there’s still, I feel like there’s more vulnerability. I feel like those tensions are actually exacerbated because. In the later reunion show, like, versus just seeing all these like tired, desperate, hungry contestants, like shoveling pizza in their face and kind of like trying to do one more analogy about, about what it’s like to blindside someone.
I think Sam said it in a post show interview. And I think, I feel like I hear everybody now in the new era when the post and where you didn’t show is recorded. When I do read their exit interviews with Dalton, I feel like every one of them says it like Man, I don’t even really remember that reunion show because I was so like, I can’t believe this is over.
I’ve been living my For 26 days. I’ve had a camera in my face and had to talk about this and this and this and I don’t really remember what happened on the reunions. I can’t really remember what anybody said. So you’re not getting any insight. Operation Italy wasn’t even brought up at this, at this reunion show.
It’s like, come on. I just, like I said, I I’m sure for 48. I know for 48, obviously 48 was filmed in what April, May of last year that a reunion show was filmed on site 49 and 50 will be filming in you know, early spring of 2025, but at least for 50 since it’s a signature. Nice round number 50 seasons of a television show, man.
If you do another 20 minute reunion show, that is going to really, really piss a lot of people off. I think,
yeah, I think it takes away just from the feeling of grandeur that survivor had. And of course, you know, when I was on survivor, so I read 14 million viewers, now it has 4 million viewers, you know, 5 million, and it’s like the highest rated scripted show.
Right. Or I’m sorry, unscripted show. It’s one of the highest rated non sport shows that that’s on there. And so the TV landscape has so fundamentally changed. Obviously the cost structures have changed too. They can’t just like blow through cash like they used to because they’re not raking in cash like they used to.
But I do think like the show itself suffers a little bit because they take away some of just the sort of like sense of like real adventure and grandeur and these people going on this like wild, you know, out, I mean, you know, obviously changing, not changing location has an impact on that too. You know, I think that’s the same kind of problem for the show where you, you Don’t feel like the specialness of it as much.
And yeah, I mean, I, I’m hopeful for it. I did. I did. Like, I know that I’m like one of the few people who I think you did not, you’re not a big fan of the rites of passage, right? Where like, they used to go and hear from every contestant and they’d play the sobby music. But I liked how this time they had the jury speaks and then they would gave each little contestant, like a little montage of like their moments.
And then got some of their perspective about what they were wanting for, you know, what they were interested in from the jurors and I are from the finalists. And I thought that was a kind of cool way to honor the journeys that all these people had been on and kind of tied into the drama of the episode.
I liked it when they went back into the pre jurors. I mean, that’s also what’s missing from all of this. You know, some of the people who were most emotionally affected by this whole experience are the ones who were voted out the soonest. And I think like, it’s like both like, fun as a viewer and kind of really nice as a contestant to give them their last words, whether that’s edited into the show or as part of the reunion.
Like I loved it when the prejurors came out, you know, like that’s who I wanted to hear from most, you know, tell me how your six days on survivor, like changed your life forever. I think that’s really interesting.
Yeah. Well, I, I wanted to, I wanted to move forward a little bit to season 50. There’s a couple of things I want to talk about even though we have no idea, they haven’t started casting yet.
I’m sure they’ve thrown out the word and they know people that want to be on it.
First off the casting process. It’s it’s yeah. Yeah.
For, for, for this particular cast 47, obviously it’s just a guessing game on our part. Who do you think from 47 makes it on 50 or, I mean, obviously we know who’s a candidate, but we don’t even know if 50 is going to be, Hey, We don’t want to include any past winners.
We don’t know that yet. Maybe, maybe there will be a few, maybe they’re just going to be like, no, we don’t want to do any former winners. We want a first time winner for season 50. We don’t want anybody to have a chance to win it twice like Tony and Sandra. So I don’t know of the name. Let’s just, let’s just rule Rachel out.
Let’s just say they’re not going with former winners for 50. Who do you think good shot to make it?
I honestly think number one is Andy. And I, you know, I think he was, he played the game. I think like production wants you to play the game. He was constantly looking for moves. He was, you know, he made a huge move.
He made like, you know, potentially one of the biggest moves of the whole new era. And, you know, I think his willingness to try anything was so compelling. The other thing that. Is is, you know, great about Andy from a TV perspective is he was this combination of very, like thoughtful and rational and like extremely emotional and messy.
You know, he, he had a, he had both sides to him and I think that’s what they want. They want someone who’s gonna like be really intelligent about the game and also like be kind of chaotic about the game. And I feel like Andy was in, in that way, can have a perfect contestant. Andy also had great confessionals, you know, he was really good at hyping up his own game.
I knew a lot of people who were like Andy, who said. On social media. Andy is playing the best game out there. And their rationale was that Andy had told them he was playing the best game out there. But he made a very good case for himself. You know, I think Andy really talks great
TV. Would you agree with that?
Number one. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I would want to see him play again. I also think he is somebody that if he plays again on 50 could be the first person voted out just because everybody has seen his game and they’re saying this guy is too much of a wild card. Or I could see Andy wanting to make a move so early and not wait around and just want to be like, Hey, let’s go after this because he performed operation Italy and his guy behind it that he might want to do that.
So early and people are just like, look, he’s. He’s almost too much of a loose cannon. But I agree. I think he should be on the only other two that I think should be, or have a good chance to me. And this is just my opinion or Genevieve and Sam, I thought Genevieve was an outstanding what’s the word I’m looking for an outstanding kind of like dissection or psychoanalysis of a survivor player, because she was somebody.
That struggled with, am I going to be fine with lying to people or am I just going to be, you know, what she kept saying Genevieve, the player versus Genevieve, the person. And I found that to be really, really interesting because it’s like she was doing all this devious things. And once again, I took a lot out of her post show interview with Dalton where she was like, I didn’t like watching myself on TV.
I didn’t like it. I didn’t enjoy it. If they asked me back, would I do it? Absolutely. But it was really hard for me to watch myself on TV. I guess she’s very self conscious. She didn’t like the way she looked and and, and that as well. But I just thought her whole cycle and analyzation of herself I thought made for really good.
TV and the fact that she struggled with it. And then I think Sam, just because second place finisher, solid guy all around, just, I think he’s, and he’s good TV. I think he led, if you go to the survivor fact checker Instagram account, I think he led in confessionals this year, if I’m not mistaken, Sam one, most confessionals, I think.
But I believe that I think I mean, I mean, because Sam had a huge just presence all season long. He was sort of the dominant member on his on his pre merge tribe, got a, and he also had like a lot of like weird, funny, goofy character moments. Like he had his freestyle rap, you know, like none. I mean, there was not a lot of actually like weird, goofy, like character moments like that from.
contestants. I mean, of us a lot of that. But was just, I mean, this, t game focused season as a Sam did kind of bring, personality to it. You kn for Sam, the challenge is Spot as like, you know, the square jaw tall white guy is like very, you know, there’s a lot of content, a lot of
people in line for that one.
Yeah. So it’s like, you know, you’ve got Xander on season 41, like probably Sam out paces Xander, but you know, if you’re getting Genevieve and and Andy from this, like maybe for, so, I mean, I think Sam is probably in the mix, but I don’t think he’s a layup. I agree with you about Genevieve. I think she was.
Phenomenal. She was a very fun gamer to watch. She gave great confessional. She always had like goofy faces, you know, her like facial reactions were very, like, enjoyable.
Talk to herself during challenges. Yes. Recite
like the food she was hoping to eat. Those so great. You know, she’s Canadian. Those Canadians are nice.
Right. Maybe that’s why it was hard for her to, yeah. And she was really like, she really like internalized the emotional impact of the game, which. I think you’re exactly right. Like, you know, they love that production loves that Jeff loves that, you know, Jeff’s whole thing is people getting transformed by the experience.
Genevieve being so open to that. I think, I think that’s probably it. You know, I think you, you know, you look at someone like teeny, like probably not, right. I mean, they were not a particularly well liked contestant, unfortunately. You know, Caroline, who I really loved as a player who was so positive, small screen presence, you know, and I just don’t think anybody else, honestly I think there’s a world where we see John Lovett back, you know, John Lovett was great for the one episode he was on.
He also brought in a lot of viewers. I knew just like anecdotally, a lot of people who were only watching for John Lovett. So I do think there’s a world where like they have like a pre merge tribe or just like, you know, or some kind of gimmicky tribe and he, or, or just, he’s kind of in this wildcard spot.
You know, like they brought Francesca back for, for season 26. Of like, let’s give him another go because he is great for the franchise.
What was the thing that Andy did in episode one to him that isolated Andy and everybody thought there’s no way this Andy guy is lasting more than he might be gone the first as you’re watching that first episode.
He might be gone this episode. He might vote him out because he’s just such a while. He’s just, it’s a weirdo. What did he do again to John? I’m totally blanking on what he did. Well, I think it was, Andy had this complete
collapse, right? So he’s running into this challenge. He’s like, well, not even like, sort of like had a panic attack.
I claimed it was like, Oh, he overheated. Then he had this like whole thing about how nobody, you know, cheers for him when he, when he’s chopping coconuts and John chops coconuts and everybody’s cheering for John, but nobody’s cheering for him. And I think what he did in that, if I’m remembering correctly, was he.
is like one ally out there. He’s like, John’s the only person who I’m friends with, but like, I want him gone instead of me. He like, like kind of like both like called him out as an ally and like betrayed him and the same conversation, you know, it was such a mess. And then I think, you know, what John has said in his exit interviews was that because Andy was such an obvious vote.
It then kind of fell on him, you know, like for two reasons, like one is like, no, no one on survivor wants to make the obvious vote just because you’re on survivor, you know, you gotta be doing crazy things, but also because of the shot in the dark where you have to vote. You don’t want to vote for the person who knows they’re going home because they’re, they might play their shot in the dark.
So you, you know, and then it could be you. And are you really willing to take that one in six chance? So you, and so it’s like inherently the person next to the person who’s the real target. And that happened to John.
Speaking of shot in the dark, is it time we get rid of this? It just seems like it hasn’t worked out.
I think the way that they have wanted it to, it’s only been successful, I believe one time and hell what was it? I can’t remember how many were left. Seven, maybe eight left where they’re just like, yeah, we’ll give up our shot in the dark. It just seems like there’s no point to this anymore.
I actually, I’m going to argue the counter.
I mean, I think like, because it’s so gimmicky and so silly and it never works except that one time for Caleb and then Caleb was voted out the next episode anyway, you know, the actual like function of the shot in the dark does not seem that useful, but what I think it does do is create that pressure. We were just talking about where like, you have to blindside someone.
And I think, I think from a production perspective, they like that, you know, they don’t like the episodes where everyone, everyone goes up to someone and says, okay, it’s going to be you tonight. I’m sorry. And then that person goes, you know, They want there to be some amount of risk, no matter how obvious it is on its surface.
And I think the shot in the dark creates that because you just have to have that other layer of strategy so that the person doesn’t play their shot in the dark.
A couple more things about season 50. You had said, obviously, you know, that, you know, casting is going on right now. Do you know? Are they reaching out to former winners?
Like, are they being mean? I have
what I’ve heard. No, like from what I’ve heard, they are not reaching out to former winners. I mean, of course, like I could be misinformed about that. I used to have really have my finger on the pulse of these things, but I really like, I keep my finger away from the pulse. I don’t my finger anywhere near that.
But, but you know, so it’s, it’s possible that they’ve changed. It’s also possible that they’ll do it later. Right. You know, it’s possible that they’ll cast. You know, 12 people and bring in or whatever, 14 people and bring in six winners later or, you know, because it fly them out separately and maybe it’s like the winner squad and you’ve got to be, you know, who knows?
Right? But, but from what I have heard, there is no there are no winners so far.
And then finally, when it comes to 50. Do you think it hurts? I mean, let’s see, Jeremy, do you think it hurts? I guess it would, now that I think about it, I’m thinking about this out loud. Carolyn Weiger, that’s her last name.
Did I pronounce her last name? I think that’s
right. Yeah.
Yeah. Do you think it hurts that she went on traders and that hurts her chances for 50? Because I was going to say, do you think it hurts? Other survivor players who have appeared on the challenge and 50. But then when I’m thinking about traders you know, Jeremy, former winner, Boston, Rob, former winner, they’re on the next season of traders.
So if they’re not talking to former winners, they’re out, but Carolyn was not a former winner. And she’s going to be on traders. And I’m wondering, you know, this is somebody that when her season ended, I said, do you. This is someone that’s absolutely going to be on season 50. Right. And we’re just like, Oh yeah, I mean, just a total character.
I wonder if that’s going to hurt someone like her, that they’re just, not that they’re against people going on other shows, but it’s almost like an oversaturation of Carolyn Weiger on our television set. I don’t
know. Oh, no. But Jeff has been quite explicit about it. They are against people going on other shows.
He has said, like, we are not that interested in people. And I know, you know, anything Jeff says, he’s not like legally bound to. He says like, you know, if you’re going to go do other shows, like, We’re not interested in you anymore. You know, we want the people that are survivor contestants to be survivor contestants.
We don’t want them to be like out on all these other shows. And I mean, I don’t know, Carolyn, I’ve never spoken to her in my life, but the rumors I’ve heard are that she is not in casting now. And that is probably because of traitors. So she made it, you know, and I think people knew that. I think people knew going, you know, I think Jeff had said that what he said before even Carolyn probably was cast on the traitors.
So. You know, maybe she made a choice that I would much rather spend two weeks in a castle than, you know, four weeks in the jungle, which is not a terrible choice. But, but you know, I think probably people like Rob and Jeremy and Tony, you know, they know that they’re not really a part of, you know, they’re probably not coming back for too many more survivor seasons, you know, and for Boston, Rob, like if they ever do like, you know, season 100 and they need him at, you know, age, whatever.
They’ll go, they’ll go to him, you know, like they’re not going to like not cast the most iconic player in the show’s franchise, or arguably the most iconic player in the show’s franchise. I gotta say arguably for anything, because if I say anything definitively, there’s going to be a lot of people tweeting at me telling me why I’m wrong.
But arguably the most iconic player in the show’s franchise you know, they’ll, they’ll find him, but like if you’re Carol and you’ve been on once and like, yeah, you were a huge character and you were so fun, but you don’t have that level of, you know, franchise wide credibility. So, I do think it.
Like you, like prior to that, I would have said like number one seed for season 50 is Carolyn, like 100 percent Carolyn. And now I don’t even think she’s going to be on the cast.
Yeah, no, it doesn’t surprise me now that you say that it’s just like, yeah, that makes sense. And yeah, the, the other three survivor, former survivor players that are on season three of the traders are all former winners, Boston, Rob, Jeremy, and and Tony, which will be interesting to see.
Do they team up? Do they go against each other?
And this is a couple of weeks away if I’m not mistaken.
Yeah, like early, I think January 6th or something early January. Yeah. No, I’m very, I’m very excited. You know, Jeremy’s a good friend. He and I played together. And I’m really, I really hope he just gets, you know, humiliated.
You don’t want him to do well. Of course I want him to do well. Of course. I would love to see him do well and win the whole thing.
Yeah, no, I, it’d be interesting. So, cause I’m trying to think. So first season. It was Siri, a survivor, and then last, last season, it was CT and Trishel to challenge people. So be interesting to see if we get someone in the bachelor world, if we get back to survivor winner, a challenge winner, a housewife, a housewife.
I mean, I think if I’m not mistaken, just looking at the cast or thinking of the cast off the top of my head, survivor has the most from one particular show on this upcoming season of with four, the other show has four.
So Yeah, that’s interesting.
And like Rob and Jeremy
are buddies. You know, and Tony and Jeremy played together.
So like, I feel like they’re naturally going to, but of course, like one of those four has to be a trader. So that’s going to be the challenge.
Yeah, that’s true. So, yeah, we don’t know how many they’re going to start out with this year. Last season, it was two, wasn’t it? It was Parvati and
Well, they started with Dan and Phaedra and they recruited poverty and
recruited poverty.
Yeah. So
yeah, they started with two first season. It was three right off the bat. Yeah. Right. And then they recruited Ari. Okay. Yeah. I can’t wait for it. But again, Steven, thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. Glad we can finally do video here of survivor chats. We’ll have you back on in in May to break down season 48 and what we have coming up for that.
So again, man, thanks a lot. Really appreciate it. And happy holidays. You and yours going forward. Thank
you. You too. And it’s, I like. Like I say, this is like one, one of the most fun things I do. I love getting to come on twice a year and I’m really grateful to you for, for having me and to your listeners for listening.
No, thank you, man. Appreciate it. And we’ll talk soon.
All right. Bye bye. Happy holidays.
Thanks so much to Steven for coming on. Love having him on. He’s always going to be there for us at the end of the fall finale and at the end of the spring finale. So we will have him on in may come survivor finale season 48 when that season ends airing in may.
Of 2025. Speaking of may of 2025, just remember I have about half the spots left for my party next year. Fan appreciation party. It is going to be at the house of blues at Mandalay bay. It is going to be on DC December, May 31st, 2025. That is also my 50th birthday. So it’s a double celebration. It is going to be an eighties themed party.
It’s not going to be mandatory that you have to be in dressed in eighties garb to get in, but someone asked you to do an eighties theme party. Maybe you should dress up for it. It’s all I’m saying. No, I’m not gonna be mad if people don’t dress up, I get it, but. There it’s an eighties theme party. And for the first time in nine years that I’ve had this party, we are going to start the party with a live podcast, probably about an hour.
Maybe we’ll go 90 minutes. I don’t know. Party is going to start at 7. PM and go, the podcast will start at 7. PM and go till about eight, eight, 15, maybe eight 30. And then the party goes till 11. Just after that reception dinner, all that’s not dinner, but food. We will have food there. Open beer and wine bar and it’s first come, first serve.
I said, I got about half spots left. Half the spots are still available. So. We’ve filled up half in two weeks since I made this announcement. So just, if you’re interested, if you’re flying in, your flight itinerary is your confirmation. If you’re driving in your hotel itinerary, hotel confirmation is your confirmation into the party.
And if you’re a Vegas local, just promise me, if I put you on the list, you’re not. Going to flake. So just wanted to get that out there. Anyway. Thanks again to Steven for coming on. Thank you all for listening. Please follow me on Apple podcast, rate, subscribe, and review. It’s the best way you can support this podcast.
As I said, daily roundup posted two hours ago, sports daily posted an hour ago to check that out. Thank you all for listening. I appreciate it. And I will talk to you tomorrow.
Send all links and emails to: steve@realitysteve.com. To follow me on Twitter, it’s: www.twitter.com/RealitySteve. Instagram name is RealitySteve, or join my Reality Steve Facebook Fan Page. Talk to you tomorrow.
