Now let’s jump to the finale and what happened at the end here. I guess before we get to the end, we got to talk about that final five challenge.
And I really want to know what you think because it’s, it’s, it’s kind of divided the fan base. And I listened to both of their answers in the post. Show interviews and I can kind of see both sides. And that is when Liz helped, who am I blanking on? Oh, Liz helped Kenzie beat Maria in that final five challenge.
And then Maria ultimately ends up getting voted out. I think it was a unanimous vote. Some people said not fair. Some people and Liz and Kenzie both acknowledge like, Hey, in Survivor, there are no rules out here. You do something and then if something is not allowed, then let Jeff tell you it’s not allowed and we’ll deal with it then.
She did something in the moment where she wanted to help her. It helped beat Maria. Maria takes it as well. It took two people to beat me. I take it as a compliment that they did that. Life is what it is. Life’s not fair sometimes. But that’s the way I look at it. What was your take on Liz helping Kenzie beat Maria?
So I agree with Liz and Kenzie that you can try something and Jeff can tell you it’s not right. I think Jeff should have said it’s not right. Like to me, that was some BS. Like I actually, I thought that that was absolutely robbery. And I, and you know, a lot of people I tweeted while I was watching the show the other day, you know, about how crazy I thought it was.
And I thought it was, you know, absolutely cheating, you know, according to. The rules of survivor. That, and then, you know, basically I think a lot of people agreed with me and then other people said, well, if it’s cheating, why didn’t Jeff stop them? Or Jeff can do what he wants. And you know, that’s. I don’t think that’s true, and even if he can do what he wants, he shouldn’t do what he wants.
You know, the point at which Liz runs back, you know, and if she wasn’t running back to get her own board, even if she was just running back to count the holes in Kenzie’s board, I think like, I could have seen a rationale for that. But the play in which she picks up Kenzie’s board and brings it back to Kenzie, not only are they double teaming Maria in what is actually an individual immunity challenge, you know, keyword, there’s individual not a team based challenge, an individual challenge, but she is also eliminating part of the course and part of the challenge is, you know, running up there, you know, getting to the puzzle, then running back, you know, there’s an endurance element to it, running back, getting your board, bringing it back.
And yes, it was understandably you know, it was clever thinking of late moment, but I do think it’s against the spirit of the game that in these individual challenges, people are competing individually. And if you open the door to people helping each other in moments like that, like, You’re never, you know, people complain, oh, the big threats, like, never have a chance to get to the end, or I guess Jeff complains about that, but like, I know, I think that, like, if there’s, if, you know, the people, people have a social opportunity to vote out the big threats, right?
Like, that is what tribal council is. You get to vote out the players you find the most threatening. What the immunity challenge is, is a balance against that. Big players have the opportunity to win a physical immunity to stop themselves from getting voted out. If suddenly the immunity challenge is also a social challenge, right, where players can team up against a big threat, then there’s like no point in the immunity challenge.
Then they’re just always going to be teaming up against whoever that big threat is. And yeah, I do not think, you know, other people said, well, they didn’t explicitly say it wasn’t illegal in this challenge to team up, you know, I, first of all, we don’t know what they said, because obviously a lot of this is edited, but I have participated in 13 individual immunity challenges.
I don’t think in any single one of them did Jeff say you may not help each other because they’re individual immunity challenges. Of course you can’t help each other. You know, and I do think like, you know, you can shout out answers. You can, you know, verbally do things. And so it’s a slippery slope, but, or, or I guess I said it’s a porous boundary, but, but the point was you’re picking up someone else’s pieces.
Like why, if, if, why, if it’s legal to pick up someone’s pieces. You know, once Liz gets to the piece, why couldn’t she throw it or hide it, you know, from Kenzie? I mean, maybe that’s the point at which Jeff intervenes. I don’t know. I mean, to me, I thought it was BS. And I’m really curious what you think about it.
Because I know that a lot of people are okay with it. I also think a lot of people are okay with it. Because it hurt Maria. I think Maria was a really unpop, was really unpopular going into the finale. A lot of people were rooting against her and I think a lot of, you know, nobody likes to, I think people were more okay with the fact that this happened because it hurt an unpopular character.
Interesting. When I was watching it in the moment. My biggest question was, okay, Kenzie solved the puzzle first, and then she didn’t understand what numbers she had to get. Why didn’t Liz just say, Kenzie, you got to go count your board. Go get it. Why didn’t she just tell her that? Why, I didn’t understand why Kenzie couldn’t grasp Oh, I got to go do that because Liz clearly knew what she had to do.
So Liz goes and does it, but it’s not like Kenzie was still working on the puzzle. She was done. So she just stood there and waited for Liz to come back and give her board. Liz basically admitted in her post show interviews, like I wasn’t going to win that challenge, so I was helping her because I wanted to get Maria out.
Great. Then just tell her, Kenzie, you got to go count your board, go get it. I don’t understand why she didn’t do that.
That was right. I mean, I, I agree with you or, or even run back and count, you know, count herself you know, and, and then like tell, tell Kenzie, I, I really do think that, you know, I, I, there’s an endurance part of the challenge, right?
Part of the challenge is running back and getting your board and coming, bringing it up and Kenzie didn’t have to do that. And, you know, obviously technically it was allowed, but You know, people are claiming that because Jeff allowed it, that like inherently a priori, like makes it legal and fair. I actually have a slightly more nuanced perspective.
I mean, nuance is a, you know, I have a different perspective. You know, I think Jeff is a human being. You know, Jeff is not a. You know, a website. He is a human being who gets excited in the moment. I think he saw this kind of like big cool moment happening where Liz dropped, you know, dropped everything and runs to help Kenzie.
I think he thought that was cool and, you know, didn’t say anything about it. And they kind of ran with it because nobody objected, you know, I think there was just this sense of like, okay, it’s happening, nobody’s complaining about it, if, I do wonder what would have happened if Maria had complained about it you know, but, but and then apparently in the next challenge of the Final Four Immunity Challenge, Jeff did tell them like, hey, you have to complete this, complete this individually, and like, to me, that’s kind of an acknowledgement that They know something went wrong like they know or that they know that like, you know, this boundary was kind of crossed.
This line was kind of crossed and they were, they were reeling it back in. So my guess is that, like, technically, if it’s not illegal and allegedly there is a law, I mean, allegedly, I, there was a lawyer on set in token chains. I know that for sure. And I believe there’s still a lawyer who goes to the challenges.
I’m not, Positive about that. So my guess is that technically this was legal. But I do think it kind of violates the spirit of an individual immunity challenge. I think they let it go because Jeff thought it was a cool moment. And I think they probably won’t allow stuff like that in the future because it seems to like it.
I think it crosses a line and probably sets up a bad precedent for what people are allowed to do. So, I mean, does it, did it bother you, Steve? Because, like, you’re, you know, you, you, you watch a lot of these shows, like, and, you know, and the challenge, people are helping each other out all the time. Like, did it bother you that when, when, when Liz picked up the board?
In
the moment, I wasn’t thinking This is wrong or I mean Obviously the show made it a deal that hey two people ganged up to go against Maria and yeah And they accomplished it I guess in the moment. I was watching it. I didn’t put too much thought I tell you it bothered me more about the Maria vote against Charlie in the final tribal like we’re gonna get to that in a second I’m telling you that bothered me way more than Liz helping Liz helping Henzi.
It did. But now that I listened again, I didn’t put a lot of thought into it, but listening to the post show interviews and then listening to your argument. Yes. Do I think it should happen again in the future? No, I don’t. I don’t think it doesn’t make any sense because now you can almost start that final five challenge in a future season.
And just have two people just run it together. Why not? If they’re allowed to help them, why wouldn’t you run it together?
Yeah. And you’re always going to get out the biggest threat, right? Whoever’s the biggest threat is basically hamstrung then, you know, or, or a different challenge. You know, what if someone, you know, what if it’s like you know, a concentration challenge or a memory challenge and someone just got in someone’s face and was like shouting at them, you know, technically that that’s actually in my mind, less illegal.
than picking up someone else’s pieces and helping, but, you know, I just think it sets like a bad, it just kind of like ruins the spirit of what an individual immunity challenge is supposed to be about, which is a person’s opportunity to prevent themselves from getting ganged up on, you know, and if you can gang up on them when they’re supposed to be preventing themselves from getting ganged up on, I just, you know, I think that it loses some of what survivor is.
And a lot of people feel differently and like, you know, I’m sure some of the listeners are going to be shouting at me saying, You know, that’s, you’re so wrong. You’re so stupid fish bag. Like, that’s what I say on Twitter. You know, this is, it was fine. Like, I have no problem with it. Like, you know, it was a cool moment.
Let it go. I did not like it, but you know, if you did, like, that’s cool. You can have your opinion too.
Well, what about this? Let’s go to the very next challenge, which was the final four challenge. The fire making, well, yeah, the challenge that led to, you know, who was going to make fire and whatnot.
Did you like the final challenge this year? First time we’d ever seen it rolling a ball up a ramp having to solve a puzzle Knowing that ball was coming down almost like a timer. I mean it could have been whether it was a ball going down a ramp It could have been an hourglass thing, but not an hour, you know, yeah, it could have been it was just like hey And I mean, you know me I love, what do I always call it?
I love the final challenge being the tie your hand behind your back and wait for the little Bali to go around the cage. And that’s my favorite one. The one that you started, that was first came up on your season, right? I love that as the final challenge. We haven’t seen that, I think in two or three seasons now.
So I don’t know if they’ve gotten rid of it or they’re going to go back to it, whatever the case may be, but I kind of dug, I was fine with that challenge because when I first saw it, I’m like, Oh, great. So they got to put a puzzle together. That’s just the logo of the season. And there Jeff throws in the cat.
Oh, by the way, no, you have to keep running back or else you’re going to lose time. And clearly that hurt Charlie and clearly it hurt. Kenzie had her ball fall once, right? Charlie had it twice and Kenzie once. Is that what it was? Yeah. And that boy, that
ball ever fell. I think she just had trouble getting her ball into the I think she like threw it, threw it too high a few times.
Okay. Then it must’ve been Liz whose ball hit the, hit the rail and she had to wait. Was it, it was Charlie twice and then Liz once. I believe. Anyway once the ball fell twice, that thing was, boy, that thing was slow. That was a hell of a penalty. If your ball hit the cage, dude, I’m just like, Oh my God, I’d be, I’d be pushing the ball forward to be blowing it and I’ll be Ben ends up winning, which is just like so random.
I mean, he’s, you know, he’s the guy that got dragged to final three because he knew nobody was, he wasn’t getting votes for anybody and you knew this was going to be, I said before the finale, before the finale aired when we were down to five people I said on my podcast, I said, and I was wrong once again, when I talk about survivor, I’m terrible in judging winners edits, and I’m terrible in judging who’s going to win this thing.
Even the episode before I said, this is either Charlie Maria’s winning this thing. I said, I said, maybe I could see a case for Kenzie, but Liz and Ben have no chance unless they’re in the finals with Kenzie, then maybe they get a vote. But if Charlie or Maria are in the finals. One of them is winning.
If they’re both in the finals, then I don’t know. Could we, could have our first close vote in a while, but I didn’t, I didn’t think much of Kenzie. And so let’s just get back to my question. Did you like that challenge? Final challenge?
I thought it was fun. And I actually, like, I also thought the final five challenge, by the way, it was really fun.
I like, that was a new thing, right? I, that where, There was a puzzle that told them like what the puzzle, you know, what the what the code was like I thought that was really cool too like a fun innovation. It’s kind of a classic there was something and I feel like there’s another season like something like millennials versus gen x where they had a puzzle where There was kind of like a a similar timer and actually that was As a timer like the um as the as the kind of like, pachinko in in in this in the final four challenge And it’s interesting because in that challenge I think in millennials versus gen x somebody else actually did help the winner of that challenge who might have been at incline when you know, Basically gave up their own shot of the challenge to help that person win by watching their timer, you know, by keeping an eye on their, their ball as it was descending which is another kind of like, you know, which I actually thought would have been legal.
It was like a big, probably a bigger, a bigger benefit than, than what Liz did for Kenzie. But I thought it was fun. Yeah, I thought like, you know, any good, you know, innovative, fun challenge, it kind of like a variety of skills and didn’t necessarily reward, you know, the exact same, the exact same thing that you can kind of prepare for.
So I thought it was anything that keeps the players on their toes. I think that makes it more interesting.
And the fact that we know that season 47 was 10 days into filming when season 46 finale aired. Now, it looks like, at least in season 47, the odds of somebody seeing Liz help Kenzie probably isn’t going to happen in 47, because they never saw it.
So, maybe we’re going to skip a season where that possibly happens again, unless somebody thinks about it on their own, but I think that we have to take that into consideration. So, it probably won’t happen next season, but anybody that goes to film season 48 later on this summer after 47 films, I definitely think there is a possibility.
They saw what Liz did and they take that as part of their game. If they get to the, you know, the final five or final four or whatever. So that brings us now to final tribal Ben, Ben wins, takes Charlie with him. And those two are sitting there. We make Liz and Maria Liz and Kenzie make fire.
Kenzie wins, gets to the final three, ends up winning five votes to three. And obviously the biggest talk since the season has ended is the fact that Maria, who was Charlie’s number one all season long, he was her number one all season long, decides not to vote for him. And that ended up being the deciding vote.
You can talk about other people voted or whatever. The bottom line was if she votes for Charlie, Charlie ends up winning the million because we find out in the post show interviews, Ben said, if it ends up a tie, the third person on final travel gets to vote. And he admitted I would have voted for Charlie.
So Luria cost Charlie a million dollars by not voting for him. With that said, I have no problem with someone changing their vote, waiting till, Hey, they made a great argument. You know what? They changed my mind. What I don’t have, what I do have an issue with is Maria’s reasoning for why she voted for Charlie.
And that’s because. Kenzie had this determination in her eyes during the fire making challenge. And I’m like, look, Maria, Kenzie could have been there. Liz wasn’t going to make a fire if you gave her 10 hours. So I don’t care what determination Kenzie had in her eyes. She was winning that fire challenge regardless.
And I understand that she added something else, which is like, I’ve always been, as a woman, I’ve been told I’m doing stuff for myself. And I saw a woman out there that had put everything aside and decided to come out here and do this for herself. That’s why I changed my vote. My personal opinion is I think it was something deeper.
I don’t know why she gave that answer. And we have since found out in post show interviews, Charlie has said, Maria has changed her answer now three times as to why she changed her vote with that. And he’s kind of over it. I think it was one of two things. And this is just my personal opinion. I think it was, I think she was still hurt from not being taken on the letters from home reward, even though she specifically told him Totally fine with you doing it.
I think that stung a little bit. And I also think there was maybe a form of jealousy where if I can’t win, no one from my Alliance is winning and that’s why she changed her vote. What are your thoughts?
Yeah, I think that’s right. I mean, you know, I, and I think the fact that she changed has changed her answers so many times kind of suggests that she doesn’t feel good about.
confronting her actual motivations, right? For why she didn’t vote for him. Was some of it bitterness? I’m sure it was. You know, was some of it wanting to reward, you know, a a young woman who’s, you know, always put herself for others and now wants to, you know, wants to do something for herself? Yes, I can probably do that too.
I mean, I really believe that a lot of was probably that this is a Harvard educated lawyer and you know, Kenzie is someone who’s been working since he was a teenager at a salon, you know, and this is, I think that there’s always a sense with you know, that when you’re awarding someone a million dollars.
And this is not a good thing necessarily, this is outside the scope of the game, and it upsets people, and it upsets a lot of the fans, I just think it’s true. I think a lot of people in their final vote will really consider a person’s circumstances, you know? I know that helped Sandra in Heroes vs.
Villains, you know? Here was a mom, you know, military mom, her, her husband you know, was, I think deployed at the time. I’m not sure if that’s, if that’s true, you know, and, and so I think a lot of the heroes were like, you know, and there were other reasons too, but I do think that factored into people’s perspective.
I think that, you know, in, in my season in Cambodia a lot of people on my jury, if Kimmy Kappenberg had made it to the end, would have voted for her because, you know, single mom, you know, and I think people think of the power of awarding someone a million dollars. As being a big deal and they sometimes, you know, they’re bringing in their, their morality and their perspective that goes outside the game.
And a lot of people watching the show, myself included, we want our decision to be just based on the game they played. You are awarding the winner of Survivor, you’re awarding the person who played the best game. But I, I, I am sure that, you know, if Charlie was. In Kenzie’s equivalent circumstances, I believe that Charlie would have won that season.
Like, like, I think that he would have gotten at least one more vote. And I just think there’s this perspective of, oh, this Harvard educated lawyer, like he can make a million dollars. That’s, that’s already there for him. And maybe I’m speaking because I might, you know, I know that affected my jury, you know, people have said about me, you know, maybe I’m like reading too much of my own perspective into this, you know, Oh, like he’s got a little anti Semitic with my, some of my jurors, but you know, he’s a, he’s a Jewish guy.
He’s going to be okay. Whereas JT has you know, these youngins you know, at, at home. But, but the, the you know, I, I also think, you know, when Maria was voted out.
testimonies. And here’s what Kenzie had to say. You know, I wrote it down because I thought Maria is an amazing woman. I admire you. I love you. I respect you. You could kick my ass up and down this game. I have to write your name down tonight because you’re amazing. You’re wonderful. And I love you. And here’s what child Charlie had to say.
Maria and I have worked side by side. It’s almost like a sibling rivalry moment. You know, and I think that, you know, I think Charlie apparently has claimed in his post show interviews that like he did kind of have more fulsome praise for Maria. But I just think like I feel like Kenzie had everything going for her in, in that one relationship, you know, where A, she has this more compelling story and, you know, that, that people wanted to award, and B, she really like, you know, she like bowed down to Maria in a way, you know, she like, like fluffed Maria, like told her she’s the greatest person in the world, you know, versus Charlie who’s saying it’s a sibling rivalry, like.
Nobody wants to sit in their sibling to win the sibling rivalry, you know, like who wants their sibling to win the rivalry? So, but I do think, oh, just, just to conclude though. Yeah. I do think like, I mean, probably jealousy and bitterness was part of it. And I, you know, like that sucks, but that’s always a part of why survivor jurors vote the way they do.
If we’re, if we’re sitting there, when you were watching the finale, going into the final three of Ben Kenzie and Charlie, before they started their final speeches and before the final chat happened, who did you think was winning?
Well, I mean, I I’ve been more edit based, you know, I do think Kenzie has had an actually kind of a winner’s edit.
And you know, so I was sort of in all in on Kenzie because she, it seemed like was getting, you know, Her story was kind of disproportionate to her impact on the game sometimes. So we would, like, see her perspective or things would be told from her point of view. So I actually did think there was a good chance that Kenzu was winning.
Whereas, like, throughout the later episodes, we heard a lot from Charlie about things he was doing wrong, basically. You know, even in even in the vote for Venus, you know, so much of that was, like, Charlie was like, well, I may be losing the game right now, you know. So it just felt like Charlie had it in, you know, Charlie’s story.
There is enough reason to suspect why he lost, whereas Kenzie’s was more about why she won. But, so I did think Kenzie was going to win going into that.
Interesting, because I didn’t really think about it until once I saw that Kenzie made the final three with Charlie and Ben, something that had struck me a week earlier that popped into my head was, Us Weekly put out a story about a week before the Survivor finale, That survivor contestant, Kenzie is pregnant with first child.
And I’m like, I go, that’s a really interesting story for us weekly to put out, because this is not a social media show. It’s not like the bachelor and the bachelorette where these contestants come on and they leave the show with hundreds of thousands of followers. I think the largest following anybody.
On survivor hats from this season is like 50, 000 people. Like it’s not a social media show. It gets more millions of viewers a week. And then the bachelor and the bachelorette do yet. It’s not like people are just like all of a sudden, Oh, I got to follow Charlie. I got to follow Kenzie. And I don’t really know the reason for that.
Considering more people watch this show than watch bachelor and bachelorette. It might be to do the age thing. It is a younger demographic for a bachelor and bachelorette, whatever the case may be. I just thought it was interesting that us weekly posted a story about a show that. They don’t talk about us.
We survivors, not us, us weekly, a show. It’s not, it’s not a show for us weekly to cover, you know? And I’m just like, why would they possibly say. And I’m just like looking at it after the fact, to me, it’s because, you know, look, this was filmed in 2023. It’s been out there a year that Kenzie once clearly somebody got to somebody at us weekly and said, Hey, you know, Kenzie won this thing.
Maybe we put out a story that she’s pregnant. I don’t know. I just found it interesting. That was one of the things like before they sat down, once I saw Kenzie in the final three, I’m like, you know what? I bet you she does win. And part of the reason I think that is because that story came out. Why else would they put that out there?
She came in second.
You know, that’s interesting. That’s very interesting. Or, you know, I mean, I, I kind of thought about it from the other perspective of like, you know, she’s, she’s having a kid. She must got, you know, a little more financial stability here. The, so yeah, yeah.
I mean, that adds to it. Just like, it’s almost like to let everybody give everyone a heads up.
Like, Hey, you might want to pay attention to this girl in that show’s finale that’s coming up next week. So that happened. Like I said, I just, I have no problem. Anyone can change their mind for anything, but I also feel like. What Charlie has said post show is a little more indicting against Maria because she hasn’t stuck to the same story and I think that’s where I kind of lose it for her and her changing her mind and you know essentially costing Charlie the million because the only other time we’ve seen that is Dominic and Wendell when I forget her name that had to do the Laurel.
Laurel. Yeah. Yeah. Had to do the deciding vote in what season? Go ahead. You know, Ghost Island.
That was Ghost Island. Yeah. 37.
Yeah. And she, and Laurel had to cast 30,
30 36. 36.
I’m only saying that cause I’m looking at wiki right now.
I
didn’t
know that off the top of my head. 37 was David versus Goliath, which is, you know, one of the great seasons of Survivor.
Yes, it was. Except for the winner, who is now persona non grata in Survivor Family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, Wendell, I love to see Laurel cast the vote and Wendell ends up winning. And now Wendell is on the goat show that I’m not watching either. Are you watching that show? The goat. No, I want
to though.
People actually say it’s, it’s enjoyable. I, I aspire to someday watch that show.
Okay. Yeah, I’m not, I’m not watching it. I know Wendell’s on, I know Wendell’s on it. You know, one of the things that I am happy about that I talk to you every single time I bring you on is the fact that, Hey, Steven, why don’t we ever get close votes on this show anymore?
And it’s always blowouts in the finale. And from seasons 41 to 44, we had it. 7 to 1 votes for Erica, Maryann, Gabler, and Yam Yam, Jam, Yam Yam Jam Jam, I call him Yam Yam and then at least last season we had D over Austin, 5 3, and then we had the 5 3, which probably should have been 4 4, and so I did like that, I did like that we had a close vote, so overall, what, I asked you this in the beginning and then I interrupted you and we never even got to it, so overall, How did you like this season?
I don’t want you to rank it one to 46 or where you put it, but overall, did you end up liking the season because of kind of the steam it seemed to pick up towards the end?
Yeah, I want to just also say about, about Maria’s boat, like, I don’t, you know, I was kind of explaining it, but like, I didn’t mean to excuse it.
Like I, I did not not that it’s like for me to excuse, but I, you know, like, I mean, I understood it, but I kind of thought it was BS, you know, I, I, yeah. I thought that you know, she said in the episode, it’s on TV. You’ve got my vote, you know, obviously You’re not, that’s not a binding contract, but I thought, you know, for someone you’ve been with for so long, you know, that person’s game you know, you’ve like been, you’re talking about uncle Charlie coming to visit your kids.
Give, give the guy a boat, you know, like it’s, it’s a bummer. Like I have, you know, it kind of, yeah, it’s that, and, and, you know, I did think Charlie played the best. I thought Charlie played an amazing game. You know, I think what that like, you know, you know, In the question of like, oh, this was Maria, you know, bitter or not, like there’s just the fact that Charlie played a fantastic game of Survivor, you know, and I thought he played a game that eclipsed either of the two games.
I mean, you know, when Soda summed up the all three of them, which I thought was a great trick question. Here’s what, how I perceive you tell me if this is right or wrong, you know. You know, for both Ben and Kenzie, it was kind of like you’ve been a social player who’s sort of like gone along with the numbers and you haven’t really masterminded any votes, and I thought that was true, you know, and I thought, I mean, you know, congrats to all three of them and congrats to Kenzie, and it kind of sucks for Kenzie, right, that so much of the story of the book.
Yeah. Her winning survivor is like, should Maria have voted for Charlie? You know, she just did this incredible thing. And now we’re all talking about, you know, the narrative has nothing to do with her. But, but yeah, I thought it sucked. Like, you know, Charlie played a really fantastic game. He masterminded so many votes.
He was in the middle of every single Alliance. And I thought he absolutely, if anyone in this new era deserved to win, I thought he absolutely did. So it was kind of a bummer. But, but. That’s, you know, sometimes the most deserving player player doesn’t win. We’ve seen it time and time again. I thought it was a very fun season.
Like you said, the first four episodes were painful, especially episodes three and four. Yeah. You know, it’s just unbelievably bad. But I thought like after that it picked up and just great fun episode after episode. The cast just brought so much drama. Another really nice thing was that the advantages and the kookiness from a production point of view has kind of really been dialed back in the last couple of seasons.
So, it just gives the contestants so much more room to play. It makes it more about their personalities and their interactions and their strategy and less like, you know, who’s holding the whatever that stupid one was called. Knowledge is power advantage. You know, and what are they, you know, doing?
Which is just like, it’s not a, not fun, you know. Or maybe it’s fun for some people. To me, it’s not why I watch Survivor, you know. And that, that, you know. These contestants really brought it, you know, they had interesting strategies. I mean, Q obviously drove so much of the drama, there was chaos, there was like, you know, Ben brought this like amazing heart to the season and made it like, you know, really emphasize like the friendship and kindness that, that Are are possible out there in these in these harsh conditions and I yeah, it was it was a really really fun season and made more so by the absolute mess post show of these contestants just hating each other on social media, you know, there’s really compelling, you know, to me about when they absolutely hate each other, because it really just shows how real the game is, you know, like they these these These experiences, it’s not just a game.
It is real life. And you know, these emotions do carry over.
Yeah. It seems like, I don’t think Charlie hates Maria, but he isn’t going out of his way to keep in touch with her. It just seems like he basically said like, you know what it happened? Not happy with it. I I’ve kind of moved on. I don’t need that.
In my life, essentially. And like you said, Q Q hating on Venus, Venus, taking on
Maria. Yeah.
And, and Venus taking a lot of heat apparently during the season by the fans, because she was a woman that was outspoken. It’s just, yeah, it was, it’s this season. It just seems like more so than past seasons, very social media playery and very, so a lot of happening online where I just haven’t really followed it in the past.
This is probably the first season in a while where I was like dialed into what these people were tweeting and what these people were saying as the show was going on. And then post show, you know, it was just a totally different animal.
Yeah.
I think a lot of people felt like it was too much, you know, like, my God, there’s an NDA, please, please.
Show a little discretion while we watch the show, you know, don’t like cause you could obviously intuit, you know, what people’s relationships were like and, and, you know, based on how they were flaming each other on Twitter. But I mean, it’s fun. It’s like a fun side show.
Yeah. Well, I want to end this with two kind of fun nuggets here.
Number one. And I don’t know if you have any extra insight to this, but it was announced within the last few days, Jeff probes came out and said, Hey, We’re bringing the SIA prize to an end where the musical artist SIA has given out money to three contestants that she felt were her favorite during the season.
She did it out of the blue one year, and then she kept doing it and. Okay. See a prize comes to an end, but we never got a reason as to why it came to an end. He just said it’s ending. And I didn’t know if, do you think this was set by the show? Like, look, we just can’t have this anymore. We think it’s unfair.
Why would, if she has been doing this for X amount of seasons, did she just stop and be like, I don’t want to do it anymore. I don’t like this show. I don’t like these contests. I don’t know. And maybe we don’t know an answer. Maybe you’ve heard stuff through the grapevine. Do we know why the SIA prize has come to an end?
No, I don’t know. I mean, you know, if I were to speculate, my guess would be that Sia did not want to do it anymore. You know, it’s a lot of money she’s giving away. She’s giving away over a
million dollars. And so it’s just like, why, I guess I didn’t understand why she would stop now. She probably still likes the show.
I don’t know. I don’t get it.
That was just Maybe at some point she felt, you know, hey, like I, do I have to continue with this forever? Like she, you know, if it’s You know, at some point, if she, if she doesn’t want to, you know, keeping it forever, she’s just got to make the break again. This is like pure speculation, but you know, I just don’t think the show would want it to end.
I know Jeff got a huge kick out of it. You know, it obviously meant a lot to the players. They, they celebrated it. And it obviously gave like another, you know, it’s another round of press for the show post show. Right. It’s like, look, here’s the, Lucy is awarding it too. So I would not, in my mind, I don’t understand why you would I can’t see a reason why the show would want it to end.
So like that doesn’t seem as viable. Whereas I can certainly see a reason why someone would not want to you know, continually give money away or feel pressured, you know, what, like you’re saying, it was like kind of a spur of the moment thing where was, was Ty the first person to receive it? You know, where, like, you know, she was like moved by him and wanted to give him money.
And then it like a life of its own. And now, you know, now suddenly she feels like stuck, like having to like, pick people, you know, you know, maybe, maybe she doesn’t want to, I just couldn’t find three people to get through this season. You know, I, yeah, so that’s my guess. I just, I just thought the announcement,
I thought the announcement was just.
Weird because it’s just like, okay, well, why wouldn’t see it? Just announces, get on your Instagram and just say, I’ve decided not to do it. Like, why did Jeff probes have to say, see a prize has come to an end with no quotes from Sia. I figured we’d get something. Yeah, that’s the weird part. I think they
would get a quote from her.
Yeah. But that to me is almost like, yeah, she’s done. She’s over it. Like, you know, she called Jeff and was like, Jeff, I don’t want to do this anymore. Can you like put something out, you know, like, yeah, I could be, you know, just like sort of. Yeah,
I could be digging here for something that’s, it just might be as simple as like you said.
The final thing I want to ask you about is this. We brought it up earlier in the podcast. Season 50 we know has been announced is going to be returning players. All returning players now granted, they’re only filming season 47 now and then they’ll film 48 which will air. And spring of 2025, and then they get a film 49 and 50 back to back and 50 will air in spring of 2026.
So we’re ways away. We’re two years away from season 50 filming, but they have said we’ll be returning players, all returning players. Everyone’s assumed it was just new era and probes came out and said, no, it’s not necessarily new era. We haven’t figured it out all the logistics yet, but it’s not just going to be new era players.
So I will say this. I’ll pose the question to you, Steven. If they came to you, is this something that you would never, if they came to you, is this something you would do again? Or are you, are you establishing your life with your wife and kid? You don’t, you would just never do it for that reason. Yeah.
I, for so many reasons, I would not do it again.
Like I I like, I found it really, I feel like going back once was awesome. I mean, I hated the experience of going back, but I returnee season, just in terms of the perspective it gave me on the game and the production. Like I don’t. Regret it for those reasons. But there’s no real reason for me to go back again.
I mean, obviously, would I like to win Survivor? Yes. That would be nice. But that’s such a long shot. You know, I’m, I’m old , I’m 45. Like, you know, I, I can’t compete against 20 somethings, you know, I, my joints, I, I’ve never, was never in the, in the best of equal condition. I, my joints can’t handle it. Hey, Kenzie just don’t have Kenzie won.
Kenzie just won. She’s. Older and wasn’t good in challenges
like you’re
29
or something. I mean she is 29. Yeah Oh, I don’t know. She’s I mean like I think isn’t isn’t that right? I’m gonna google it like late 20s. I don’t know. But she was you know, 47 obviously acquitted herself pretty pretty great Yeah, yeah, kenzie’s 20.
Kenzie’s 29. Oh jeez Yeah, so I mean I don’t find just like, you know, I found watching it episode to episode stressful Like what what you know humiliating moments will they include this this time? And yeah, I don’t know. I started, you know, I wouldn’t want to leave my wife for for that period of time So I am definitely out of contention.
Okay, but but Yeah, but but listen, I’m also I don’t think they would ever ask me there’s so many great contestants who they haven’t brought back You know, I think like my guess is it will be largely new era contestants Yeah, you know, my hope is that there would be a fun smattering, you know I I would love to see Christian who bit you Vicky back, you know, Angelina from David vs Goliath Rick Devins, um from from season 38, you know, I can’t believe you know, yeah a great contestant to return so there’s a lot of great, and then, you know, that’s just, those are the three who are just sort of off the top of my head, you know, I know that there’s so many awesome.
Yeah, and it was something I, I didn’t think you would because you’re just. Your life is in a different place. You didn’t have a child the first two times you competed on the show. And yeah, I, I get it, but I was just curious if it’s something like, if they were to ask you, even where you at are in your life right now, is it something that you could even, Could even do if you like, if you got a second burst of energy, a second wind and we’re like,
right,
is it something that you even want to?
I would imagine that there’s aspects of like having a child where it actually makes it easier to go on survivor. Like, you know, first of all, like, you’re like, Oh my God, peace and quiet for a month. You know, like I can. You know, your standards for sleep, like, change so much. You know, when I went out, when I went on Survivor, I was like, Oh, I’m not getting a good night’s sleep.
This is terrible. Now, like I never get a good night’s sleep. This is just normal. You know, and I do think having a child to play for will, would probably be really motivating in a way, you know, where, where, you know, previously I was just playing to win. I was playing to, you know, really to win the game first and foremost, and to win the money second and secondly.
But the And that’s why I can’t imagine, and it gives you a great story at the end, you know, where like, I did not have such a great story at the end last time, or the first time. But, but yeah, I’m not, not really compelled to do that again, and I would not accept if I were asked.
Okay, well, the other thing is, if you did, that particular season, I don’t even know if we’d be able to bring you on for our annual or biannual chat.
Yeah, there’s another reason why you shouldn’t go on. So again, Steven, I love having you on at the end of every season. Obviously we’ll have you on in the fall again when season 47 airs. Can’t wait for that to come about. And again, thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. You’re the best man.
Oh, thank you.
Can I ask you one last question? What was your verdict? What was your takeaway for the season? Did you like it?
I liked it. It, I, it kind of, like I said, it picked up at the end and I don’t know where to rank it because I forget these seasons right after the air, but I really liked the last probably seven to eight episodes, but I, I definitely despised the first four because I was like, man, I’ve never seen anything like this.
I’ve never seen three people who basically. Were the worst players we’ve ever seen. Bhanu was an absolute hot mess and Jess was a terrible player. And Zelinsky thought he was way better than he was as a, as a supposed expert. He knew absolutely nothing about the show. Essentially it was just not good. I was like, man, they better recover from this.
And I think they, and I think they did. And that’s, and that’s why, and then there was, there was just compelling drama and there were likable people at the end. And I just. I, you know, I was rooting for Charlie. Yeah, I thought he should have won. And then, you know, the, the post show stuff I thought was interesting.
So yeah, I really, I did like the season. I like how it picked up, but probably just the last half of the season is what I really like. Yeah. So that we’ll see how we’ll see how 40 47 goes all new players. And, you know, when the season starts every year, I’m just like, who are these people? What? And then by the end you’re like, Oh, okay.
You know, and now you just see like, okay, now I’m into this and I’m now into these people and we’ll see what happens with 47. So definitely going to have you on again in the fall. Appreciate it, man. And we’ll talk soon.
Yeah. Thanks so much.
You got it. Thanks so much to Steven. Really appreciate him going on.
He’s the best. Love his insight on this finale. Loved his talk about Maria. He was really. He was really bothered by the help that Liz gave Kenzie in the final five challenge. And like I said, when I was watching it, I was like, this doesn’t seem right, but I wasn’t really put off by it. But as I listened to the post show interviews and as I listened to Stephen there, he makes a great point.
Like it’s an individual challenge. What’s the point now, obviously it’s not going to happen in season 47. Cause those people didn’t see season 46. They’re out filming. But in season 48, people that are leaving later on this summer to go film season 48, they’ve seen now what happened. They’ve seen Liz help Kenzie.
Why not just start the final five challenge and two people just run it together? Like it just, I know that Survivor makes their own rules, but seemingly they’re gonna have to put an end to that. I would think. I guess only time will tell thanks again to Stephen for Fishbach for coming on. Thank you for all listening.
Please follow me on Apple podcasts, rate and review if you can, but you got to hit play. That’s the only way it counts as a download. So please do that. The daily roundup was posted a couple hours ago. The sports daily was posted an hour ago. You can listen to those go with two Courtney Robertson’s after reality podcast.
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