One of the first issues I had with what Greg said was telling Katie she filled a hole in his heart. I’m assuming he was talking about the hole from his father’s passing. I’m sorry, but that’s a bit much. His father was his father for what, over 20 years? And now he’s putting all this pressure on Katie by letting her know a girl he’s spent maybe a total of 48-72 hrs with has filled that hole in his heart? That’s very heavy handed and an awful lot to throw on someone. Not to mention, it’s very hyperbolic since I don’t think that Katie, someone he barely knows at this point, filled some void left by his FATHER of all people. C’mon. Just seemed way too much, too soon.
Greg has every right to let Katie know how he’s feeling. Which he did. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. Well, maybe some are, but I didn’t have an issue with him expressing himself to her. What I did not understand was, once Katie responded with her “I like looking at your face” comment, something she absolutely could’ve given him more on, Greg then basically became a pouter. And because he didn’t get the response he wanted, he started attacking her. Was her answer a good one? No. It bordered on terrible. HOWEVER, right after it, she immediately apologized for it. It’s not like she yelled back, fought back, or dismissed anything he said. She apologized for it. If we’re gonna simplify this, at that point, this conversation could’ve ended right there. I open up to you, and THAT’S all I get in return? You’re right, I’m sorry. And we move on. Seriously. He just kept going expecting more and more. I’m not sure what he wanted. He specifically told her he didn’t need her to tell him she loved him, but his response was, “I want Katie to be Katie.” Maybe I’m a moron, but that seems rather vague. I don’t know what that even means.
Another thing that Greg kept doing was interrupting her. There was a time where Katie said, “I listened,” and Greg responded with “No you didn’t.” To me, that’s manipulative. I know people love throwing the word “gaslighting” around nowadays. I tend to think there’s levels to gaslighting. The definition online is “manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.” Do I think parts of their conversation Greg was manipulating? Absolutely. Do I think he was doing it to make her question her sanity? I think that might be a bit extreme. They were having a major disagreement in a very highly sensitive situation. But we can debate levels of gaslighting all day long. All I know is when someone tells you they’re listening to you and you tell them “No you aren’t,” I mean, call it whatever you want. Manipulating, gaslighting, etc. That was shitty for him to do. Period.
Like I said, he’s allowed to express his emotions towards her, but again in my opinion, it seemed like he was doing in HOPES that it would elicit some sort of reciprocation, or, just her up and ending the show to be with him. It was so hard to see it any other way from his side. He was so mad he wasn’t getting anything in return, but the way he said things like, “You were the one…I told you that I loved you and I felt like I was telling a stranger…you couldn’t acknowledge what I said to you,” the tone in his voice, acting like she did something horribly wrong, it just seemed like he said it strictly to get validation. And when she didn’t give him validation, he lost it on her and started being quite mean and hurtful towards her. I think Katie saying something along the lines of, “Yeah, I’m sorry I’m basically not an expert on navigating dating numerous men to the point of almost an engagement” said a lot. She’s not perfect. It’s a very unusual experience to be a part of, and Greg seemed to expect her to have the right response for everything. When he laid that on her, she was clearly overwhelmed, she apologized for not responding greatly, and he just COULDN’T. LET. IT. GO. In relationships you’ll have fights. In relationships you’ll have disagreements. But at the first sign of miscommunication, he acted like THAT and basically walked off? Just goes back to my first point. I don’t think he handled himself well in that situation. It should never have escalated like it did.
The language he was using, “fill a hole in my heart,” “I gave you everything and you didn’t acknowledge it” just felt very love bomb-y. Have a little empathy for her if she doesn’t respond exactly the way you wanted her to. Especially after she at least apologized for it. I think what Katie didn’t do a good job of was communicating EXACTLY how she felt. Now, maybe you can blame that on the show because she’s maybe not allowed to, or at least felt like she wasn’t allowed to. Or maybe she was caught off guard, whatever. But she told the guy he was her front runner. It seemed to me she was giving him as many assurances as she could without giving him the exact wording assurance he was looking for. And front runner doesn’t necessarily mean “winner.” She liked him. A lot. Seemingly. She wanted him to get to the next step which was overnight dates. She didn’t owe him anything other than getting to that next step. And that’s what she was going to give him if he didn’t bolt. It didn’t guarantee a win, but we’ve heard Katie say she fell for more than one guy. That was Greg and Blake. Who knows what would’ve happened if they both got overnights. Maybe something would’ve clicked in her head to end up with Greg. But Greg acted like he was owed so much because he opened up to her. That felt wrong. It was the same thing I said about Blake last season when he was so bummed Clare fell for Dale and he was pissed because he’d bought a book on Alzheimer’s. Like that was supposed to mean he was owed something in return. No. Doesn’t work that way.
How many times in the past have we seen the lead not tell someone, hell someone that they eventually ended up choosing, how they 100% felt during the show? It’s happened a lot on this show. And that’s maybe where Greg’s lack of knowledge regarding how things work on this show may have done him in. Katie not opening up and giving him the greatest answer didn’t sit well with him. Which he’s absolutely allowed to feel. But if this really is the one you said all those things about, you know, “filled a hole in my heart,” “in love with you,” “she’s the one,” why was his immediate reaction to just self eliminate? The first sign of miscommunication or maybe feeling Katie not being open, that’s the reaction? Why wasn’t it, “I know this is tough. I get it. We’re towards the end. You have a feelings for 2-3 guys. I’m here for you. If it’s meant to be us in the end, it will be us in the end. But I’m willing to take that chance.” What’s wrong with saying that? It’s basically what you have to do on this show – take a chance. Why did he have to raise his voice at her? Why did he have to walk off? Why did he have to tell her she wasn’t listening? He’s allowed to be frustrated. I’m sure many people in that situation have been frustrated. But not everyone responded that way. In fact, no one that I can remember did.
I think in the end this ultimately showed me that these two probably wouldn’t have made it in the long run anyway. Doesn’t mean she and Blake will, I think though that once this escalated to what it did, it was clear these two weren’t on the same page. So you put it past you, and you move on. The ATFR has already taped. Next week we get the regular 2 hour finale followed by an hour ATFR. I don’t know what happened at the ATFR but I’d be shocked if this “fight” continued. Greg’s had time to think about it, so has Katie. Maybe I’m just being naïve, but while I see them going over some of the things that were said in this fight, I don’t see it ending in contention. I can’t imagine three months later, Greg wants to come on ATFR and attack her and accuse her of the same stuff he did back in April. That’d be an even worse look. To have three months to sit on this and then just double down? Yeah, no. I hope he doesn’t do that. I have a feeling it’ll be a difficult conversation to have, but 3 months later, cooler heads have prevailed, they can both admit they said and did things in the moment they’d like to take back, he wishes her the best, and we move on. Anything other than that, and either one of them will look bad.
I know the pro-Greg campers and the Katie haters will say that Blake was a fall back pick, and she really wanted Greg, and how could she tell him he’s a front runner, and be miserable once he left, but then accept a proposal days later, I think are missing the bigger picture here. To me, that’s pretty easy. I don’t know any details on what happens in the finale, other than knowing HOW the finale ends up – Blake and Katie engaged – I can see it being more of Blake saying he never gave up on them, he never questioned their relationship, he’ll always be there for her, etc. I can see how they get to their point. Katie will be hurt by what Greg did as we’ve seen, but in the moment, and given a day or two of passing, she’ll realize it was for the better and Blake is who she ultimately wants to be with. Granted, none of the Greg fans will buy it and they think she’s the devil, but I’m just telling you how I can see it going from where we ended last night to ultimately an engagement.
This Greg/Katie situation can be talked about for hours. I think it shoudn’t have escalated the way it did, I think Greg’s reaction to it was uncalled for, I think Katie could’ve better expressed herself, and I think nothing about this situation was black and white. There’s no right or wrong here. A lot of grey area, as evidenced the multiple different takes people have had. This was mine. Greg could’ve been much more empathetic to the situation Katie was in, and didn’t need to eliminate himself from the show over that. Stick it out, see where it goes, if you think she’s the one like you said, then you’ll end up together. If not, then it wasn’t meant to be. But ultimately the pressure this show puts on the lead to get engaged at the end of this thing is what makes things so unrealistic and heightens expectations to levels they shouldn’t be. Greg isn’t a horrible human being like some Bachelor Nation people are making him out to be. And Katie certainly could’ve communicated a little better. But lets not bash these people to the fullest extent on their own social media. Everything will be ok.
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jlal
August 3, 2021 at 10:49 AM
Katie made it clear she wasn’t saying the love word to anyone, but the guy at the end. That is what Greg was pushing her to say. On the flip side, if someone is just not that into you, you can sense it on some level. I think Greg sensed on some level that Katie was not where he was and he couldn’t deal. I do think Greg set her up to fail. I have known men and women who do the same thing – they have expectations the other person doesn’t even know exists and then are mad/sad/disappointed when those expectations are not met. The bottom line is she either couldn’t (because of shoe rules or lack of feelings) or she wouldn’t (because of her own code of waiting until the end) give him what he needed, so he left.
adelina
August 3, 2021 at 12:36 PM
Totally agree with what you stated @jlal.
Greg’s meltdown was a total turnoff and such an indication of future issues. His intensity is too much and has no appeal in a longtime partner.
I imagine he’s the guy that gives you the silent treatment or pouts at random times and with no warning. Also, to proclaim his love and then claim, “I gave you everything.” That’s some intense neediness. He reminded me of someone with an alcoholic personality that I once knew. A bottomless pit of neediness – no thanks.
It’s too bad she now is stuck with consolation prize Blake. She’ll be single again in no time.
unlisted
August 3, 2021 at 1:33 PM
The impression I got was that Greg didn’t really understand the rules of the “Bachelorette” game. And there were some other miscommunications, as well.
He kept saying that once he confessed his love for her, and he felt he got the message from Katie that he was El Numero Uno, they no longer needed to go through the motions of getting a rose, overnights, engagement, etc. That he expected she would have just declared her love right then and there (using the L Word) and told the other two guys to take a hike.
Instead, when he opened up to her, rather than melting into his arms as he expected and reciprocating in kind, she continued acting and speaking BacheloretteSpeak– as if from an ABC script– which he interpreted as b.s.
Also it sounded to me as if he felt he was getting mixed messages from her. On the one hand, she strongly hinted he was her choice. So why not say so and let him be the winner then and there, without leading the other two guys on? But then she not only insited on going through the rest of the process, she refused to reciprocate his level of feelings and vulnerability at the same level, which was confusing to him.
It was almost the reverse of what used to happen in the good ol’ days: when a woman was kissed by a man, she would assume that he loved her and wanted to marry her.
JMO!
p.s. I think they both have “issues” and are not good candidates for marriage.
switt610
August 3, 2021 at 5:39 PM
Steve… I really appreciate your commonsense response to what happened last night. Because of what I have learned from you, I like to remind people this is a producer driven TV show with REAL people that we know nothing about. Losing sleep or being angry over any of it is ridiculous. Neither Greg or Katie are bad people. Thank you for keeping us updated.
ctrealitygirl
August 4, 2021 at 11:40 AM
I’m really surprised at all the fans who are taking Katie’s side of the Greg/Katie debacle. Did anyone not take notice of her body language? Or her dismissive facial expressions? All season we’ve watched her lavish Greg with affection, then, out of nowhere, she changes her tune. I’m not saying she owed him an answer to whether he was her final pick. But everyone seems to forget that Peter basically gave Rachel the same ultimatum and everyone LOVED Peter. How is this different? I wasn’t crazy about Katie being picked as the Bachelorette but was willing to give her a chance. But she just leaves me cold. I noticed on the MTA episode that she treated all her so-called favorites- namely Andrew and Michael A – like that were yesterday’s news. In past seasons, both male and female leads at least act like they still have some fondness for the ones they let go toward the end. Katie was downright stone cold, especially how she responded to Michael A’s profession of still being in love with her. I think Blake is smarmy…didn’t like him on the Clare/Tayshia season, and like him less this season. He reminds me a lot of how smug Nick Viall acted when he came onto Laitlyn’s season…but even worse. I’m glad she picks him in the end. they deserve each other. I sure hope Michelle’s seaon is better than this one. I used to look forward to Monday nights..but no more. I have not finished watching one episode…fall asleep before the end and don’t even bother to watch what I missed. The producers made a huge mistake picking her and the ratings prove it. I’d really like to see Andrew named the next Bachelor. He’s another one she treated pretty badly. Her picker is WAY off.
megs
August 7, 2021 at 12:23 PM
Just wanted to point out that the scene with Katie and Greg where he’s crying and telling her he’s in love with her and she said she likes looking at his face… was edited LIKE CRAZY. In one second, he’s bawling, and the next time they cut to his face, supposedly immediately after, not crying at all, plus Katie had her hand on him in the crying scene and then not the next time they cut to him. There’s plenty we didn’t get to see from this conversation, so I don’t really think it’s fair to even have opinions on it since we didn’t get the whole scene.
xoxo00
August 9, 2021 at 1:36 PM
I surprised you can’t see what Greg was saying. He was pouring his heart out and very emotional. He talked about his Dad and cried and she was as cold as ice. Greg’s brother said he never talked about his Dad, not even to him, but he did let himself hurt in front of Katie. That was a big deal to him and she didn’t give him anything. She smiled weirdly and said she loved his face. Someone who is sincerely in the moment would say “I am so sorry your Dad isn’t here – I know how much he meant to you” or “It means a lot to me to me that I am able to help you see the sun after being in a dark hole after losing your Dad”. Instead she said oooohh heeeyyy I love your face and by the way you’re going to be getting the rose. He didn’t care about any of that. He was talking to his girlfriend and Katie was still playing the bachelorette. That is why he no longer saw her as “real”; he saw Katie as the Bachelorette and it was over for him.
It’s likely Katie was trying to do the right thing by the show by not giving away her final choice. It seems she really was in love with Greg and couldn’t tell him. It’s also possible that she was not able to fully feel due to the pressure of being the Bachelorette — Katie is a people pleaser and I think she worked hard to do it right. She was just caught up in the show, IMO, and lost Greg because of it. Greg wasn’t manipulating her. He told her over and over he wasn’t looking for the rose or to hear that she loved him too he was looking for Katie to be Katie instead of Katie the Bachelorette. It’s odd no one can see this. They’re both great people. They just didn’t communicate well and this is what couples sometimes do. I don’t think Katie has a chance of reconciling with Greg, if she wants to, because he has a wall up now. He stopped trusting her the second she couldn’t stop being Katie the Bachelorette.
And, finally something real from this series, sometimes poor communication can kill a relationship. If you’re in a relationship you better check yourself and make sure you’re clear with your mate and listening to them as well.