Reader Emails

“Reader Emails,” & Peter Talks About Potentially Being the Bachelor

Photo Credit: ABC

Hey Steve! I love reading your articles every week about the bachelor/bachelorette. My question is, what are the odds you think Kenny will be the next bachelor? I know they usually pick from the final 4, but I feel that Kenny really won over the audience on the men tell all. Also, is he going to be on paradise? I recall you mentioning this. I think he would be a great bachelor, he is a very genuine man. What did you think of him telling Rachel if it didn’t work out between Bryan, Eric, and Peter to give him a call?


Comment: Zero percent.

I think Kenny is a stand up dude, very likable, and I believe Dean said it to Lee at the MTA that if you can’t get along with Kenny, there’s something wrong with you. Kenny just seemed to throw that line at Rachel to be charming it seemed.

Hi Steve,

1. You mention James Taylor in your last column. Maybe I’ve missed or forgotten something so apologies if you’ve already given this information but have you heard anything about if he’s truly changed his ways since you had him on the podcast? I haven’t heard much. Some things here and there but nothing to back it up.

2. I couldn’t stand Lee on the show but watching him on the MTA was painful, even if he is a racist, misogynistic ass, I couldn’t help but feel a level of sincerity from his statements & reactions which was unexpected. I don’t imagine that everyone thinks about things they say on social media before going on this show and people post things that are offensive thinking its funny at the time or that it just won’t matter. Ignorant seems to be the best label for him at this point. I know there are some villains like Chad that don’t deserve any more air time, but in the future, would you be interested to have Lee on your podcast? I don’t think so.

3. Who would be the top or top 3 Bachelor/Bachelorette leads or contestants you would want to interview, including Rachel’s season? Nahhhhh, can’t go there.

4. If you could interview any person in the world, who would it be? (or top 3 if you can’t choose one.)

Thanks for taking the time to answer these, hope you have a great week!

Comment: Oh there’s so many. Impossible to do narrow it to top 3. However, Kiefer Sutherland would definitely be in there. And can I count the whole cast of Beverly Hills 90210 as a second one?

Hi Steve!

You are a highlight of my week 🙂 I live a lame life. You must if I’m the highlight. I’m not that special, but thanks for the kind words.

Question- Do the contestants get to view the season prior to the public or do they view the season for the first time along with everyone else?

Comment: No. Only the lead does. They get it emailed to them to stream it.

Hi Reality Steve,

I may be missing something here but in watching Rachel’s season , it’s shown that Bryan, peter , Eric etc all get one on one dates, some even more than others, and then theres guys like Adam and Matt who made it to final 6 and never got one on ones or even a 2-1. My question is this: Is who goes on dates up to Rachel entirely or is it more forced by the producers , because if that’s the case they made it way too obvious who the front runners were the entire season by not giving certain men at least one chance at having a date. However if Rachel did actually get to make the decision entirely on her own, it makes me think she could have been a lot more fair. I was thinking about this when Matt mentioned at the MTA “People come up to me and ask who’s Matt? Why did she bring you this far?” And Rachel defended how amazing he is, but I was surprised that no one else had ever mentioned the fact that he never even got one date when Bryan got at least 3 (that I remember). I know it’s never going to work out for every single contestant to have a one on one or 2-1, time just doesn’t allow for that, but it just seemed that certain frontrunners had substantially more time alone with her, so how would the others have even had a chance? For example, Maybe if she had given one of Bryans many dates to Adam she would have had the chance to feel those same ‘sparks’.


Comment: It’s really a combo of both. Producers know exactly who Rachel is into and who she isn’t. And they know who she plans on sending home when. So they book the dates accordingly. Yes, Matt and Adam not ever getting a 1-on-1 was ridiculous before hometowns since obviously if you’ve never gotten a 1-on-1, and THREE guys had TWO 1-on-1’s, of course you’re not getting a hometown. Dumb.

Hey Steve!

Did you get the vibe that Rachel was not into The Men Tell All…at all? She seemed pretty short and sassy. The guy that she’s known for almost her whole life, pours his heart out about how he felt and her response was basically “Thanks”. And then how she didn’t really give Dean much of an answer. Idk just an observation but she seems to be super done with all this.

Comment: And this person was talking about the MTA. I wonder what they thought of the ATFR?

Hi Steve! I’m obviously a huge fan and I would die if I ever met you. Fun fact: I’m also probably your youngest fan (I’m 14 lol). Alright here’s my many questions for the week that I have been dying to ask! Wow. A 14 year old. Outside of my niece who’s 13 (who doesn’t watch the show or read the site), can’t say I know many 14 year olds who are fans. Very sweet of you. But trust me if you met me, you’d be underwhelmed.

1) Has there ever been a time where you felt ABC picked the wrong contestant for the lead of a season? If so, which ones? And who would you have wanted/expected it to be? Oh geez. I hate it when people ask me questions that make me have to use my brain. Kidding. That’s a lot to go over. But since I’ve never really cared who they cast in the lead role, it’s hard for me to say they ever got it wrong.

2) Before it was announced that season 11 of the Bachelorette was going to have 2 bachelorettes, who did you think it was going to be? And after you found out were you Team Britt or Team Kaitlyn? For the longest time I was convinced it was just gonna be Britt. I became Team Kaitlyn once I realized who the two were and knew Kaitlyn was gonna get the gig.

3) If you had to date 1 contestant on the Bachelor who never was the lead who would it be? Emily O’Brien. I wonder if Emily ever gets sick of me constantly gushing about her? I’ll ask.

4) Do you think that Rachel is as fame hungry as some other people on this franchise? I think the fact that she returned to work proves that she’s not, but you would know more about that than I would. Fame hungry? I don’t think so, but that doesn’t mean you won’t see her shilling product on social media. It already started yesterday.

5) Finally, out of the 5 most recent seasons of the Bachelorette (Rachel, Jojo, Kaitlyn, Andi, Desiree, Emily) which of them did you feel were the most fake / in it for the fame?

Thanks so much!

Comment: I wanna say Kaitlyn, but not in a negative way. And I say that because after she was the “Bachelorette,” she did one of those Tedx interviews and essentially admitted she did the show to build a brand. Here it is (at the 2:43 mark):


Hi Steve!

Long time reader and addicted listener of your podcasts. They really make my daily commute fly by!

A couple of non-bachelor related questions as I, like you, am a big fan of 24, and have recently been binge watching the series (currently in season 7).

1) Who is your least favorite CTU character? Kim – at times. Of the regulars, it’d be her but she definitely had better moments as the seasons went on. Other than that, there wasn’t any other regular I disliked.

2) Other than Jack, what character would you like to spend a day with? Either Tony or Palmer.

3) Which season is your favorite and why? Either season 2 or 5. If you’re forcing me to choose one, I’d say 5. It won the Emmy for Best Drama and Best Directing, and Kiefer won for Best Actor that season. Most die hard fans agree that was their best season from beginning to end. But because of the show’s format, there’s always parts of the day in every season that lagged a bit storyline-wise. Most people won’t agree with me because season 3 was one of the more panned seasons by the critics, but I’d put the last 12 hours of season 3 up against any other season. To me, it was that good. For those that don’t remember, that’s when the virus got loose in the Chandler Plaza hotel, numerous big name characters died even some in glorious fashion, Nina’s death, Tony was put in a no-win situation to save Michelle, Jack had to kidnap Saunders daughter. Great 12 hours. The first 12 with the virus down in Mexico, albeit exciting while you were watching because you didn’t know where it was going, ended up not adding anything to the story once they came back from the states. It was almost like two completely different seasons.

4) If casting had been different, who would you have wanted to see playing the role of Jack Bauer? Nobody. It’s impossible to say since the character was so iconic.

Thanks for your thoughts! Keep doing what you do!

Hi RS – You’ve probably gotten this info from another reader already but just to make sure: Kenny did say Eric’s name at the MTA when he said if things don’t work out with the remaining guys, Rachel should call him. As is my normal practice, I watched the episode after reading your recap because it makes the episode way more entertaining, so I was paying close attention to Kenny’s words. Yes, I did go back and watch and you are correct.

Thanks for all you do to make this series entertaining. I have been watching since college (Season #1, yes, I am old) and have been reading your site since Emily’s season. I held off for many years until I finally realized getting spoilers would enhance the viewing experience. And then I got hooked on your witty, slightly cynical, and incredibly insightful writing. BTW your podcast is the first one I ever listened to, and it changed my commute. Sitting through traffic is so much more bearable getting to hear you draw out the true selves of former Bachelor/Bachelorette participants.

To the reader who was upset about advertisements on the podcast – can’t you appreciate the free entertainment you are getting?!!? I find it so strange that people think they are entitled to things for no cost. I don’t find the ads distracting at all. Because there are always people out there who will find something to complain about, even if they’re getting it for free.

I hope to make it to a fan appreciation party in Vegas one of these days. I think I probably love Vegas as much as you. Impossible.

A fan who never sends reader emails because you are very proactive about answering any questions I may have,

Comment: Oh nice. I’m now proactive. I wish I didn’t procrastinate. Kills me.

Hi Reality Steve,

I’ve been a silent reader and listener of your blog and podcasts and I almost enjoy them more than the show itself. I have a question: Does the show have any bias towards casting people from upper-middle class families? I don’t mean the contestants themselves but the families. I’ve noticed that aside from Dean (that I can remember) when the contestants take the lead to their parents’ house they turn out to be fairly large houses. By that I mean that I’ve never seen an apartment building or a house that didn’t have multiple rooms and vast space. Keep rocking!!


Comment: Remember, a lot of the hometown visits are not in the actual parents house. Some are relatives, some are friends, some they just borrow. And production sometimes even goes in and will change the interior to their liking if they want.

Hi Reality Steve!

I’ve been reading a lot of your work and listening to your podcasts recently and really enjoy them. I have a few random questions that are all over the place. I know you can’t always talk about certain things, so I understand that if that’s the case for some.

1.) After watching Peter and Rachel’s last date during the finale, I felt like Peter was actually being very realistic. Do you really believe he was purely being calculated and wanting to be the bachelor? I actually feel that what he was saying was very honest and realistic sounding. I’m not even a die hard Peter fan, just more of a supporter that these people should be able to want to date someone without proposing just for the show. What’s wrong with only wanting to propose once? I was actually irritated that Rachel said “you don’t only get one chance you’re choosing that.” It’s both. Yes, what he was saying is realistic that he didn’t feel like asking someone to marry him he barely knew. However, the part he left out was that he did the show for his career and he was never going to propose. Maybe Rachel realized/heard/read that in the 3 months it aired and possibly why she seemed sassy on Monday. I have no idea but it could be a reason.

2.) I just recently heard that Vanessa was not well liked in the house on Nick’s season. Why was this? Do you know any updates on that relationship and where it stands? They’re still together. And you’re correct, Vanessa definitely wasn’t the most well liked. Not by a long shot.

3.) Do you know much about Brad Womack? LOL I actually loved watching his seasons and was just curious what ever came of him, if he’s dating, etc.


Comment: He still owns bars down in Houston last I heard.

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  1. anita29

    August 9, 2017 at 9:02 AM

    OMG! I cannot believe how many people drank the Peter “Kool aid”! This guy was not into Rachel. Please go back to the ABC online page and read the question on Peter’s profile:
    “What’s the closest you have ever come to being married?”
    My ex of two years. I was looking at rings after just THREE months.”
    So, for this girl he was willing to commit in just three months, but for Rachel, no.
    PLeasseeeee… He was paving the road to be chosen as the next Bachelor.
    I wish Rachel and Bryan the best of luck. I think people forget how much editing this show
    involves and I think Bryan got a very bad edit. I bet he’s a fantastic guy and that is why Rachel chose him.

  2. tinyred500

    August 9, 2017 at 10:08 AM

    I totally understand that it’s a heavily produced and edited show. The producers want to sway the audience to think who the favourites are. I’m sure each season the lead has their own narrative that’s part of the storyline too…all to keep the audience guessing and erm glued to the telly!

    Over previous seasons we’ve seen so called favourites come and go. Look at Des and Brooks, we were lead to believe it was only Brooks for her, it was a theme throughout her season, then he left because he didn’t love her etc., and she was left devastated. Or was she? Was it really also just as much about Chris, but his narrative was a hidden one and the audience was purposely mislead? So Rachael’s season perhaps isn’t so different from previous ones. I don’t care one iota who picks who, it makes no difference to my life. However, I’d never ever compare a relationship outside of the show to the so called one on the show, because it isn’t a relationship and they aren’t really dating per se. It’s an elaborate and over the top form of speed dating, with the minimum time spent (with the lead) in hope they can garner as much info they need to decide who’s the right fit, and that’s if they are sincere.

  3. jessie

    August 9, 2017 at 10:15 AM

    Oh wow are the Peter nuts, NUTS! It’s kind of funny – because it’s so like girlfriends I know in real life – creating a fantasy person in the body of a real person who fit’s their personal taste and they make every excuse for the guy. Funny and sad! It’s going to be a nightmare when this guy is bachelor. Man, I hope something happens to stop that!

  4. shenanigans

    August 9, 2017 at 10:27 AM

    I don’t understand why people are accusing Rachel of “throwing shade” at Peter when she said that the show wasn’t for him. She was simply stating the truth: that he couldn’t propose to someone he only knew for six weeks. He clearly said that to her. It’s not like it’s something she just pulled out of her butt. LOL

    Now, Peter is backtracking by saying that he was open to the possibility, maybe under different circumstances, yada, yada, yada. However, that doesn’t change the truth: he wasn’t willing to do it for Rachel, and she had every right to say that to him.

  5. tinyred500

    August 9, 2017 at 10:41 AM

    Do you not think that peeps in general are nuts for watching such a cheesy and silly show to start with?! Lol I do and yes, I include myself! Lol

  6. crushonspivey

    August 9, 2017 at 12:45 PM

    Have to admit, the format they used for the finale did Rachel zero favors. I think they tried a new approach simply because the ending was different, but they should have stuck with how Andi did it. It would have been more fair to Bryan, and to Rachel.

    Instead, that Peter break up was the high point, and the engagement was basically an afterthought to the finale. And it is supposed to be the crescendo to the season. It wasn’t. It seemed almost fake and contrived.

    I also think Rachel sort of blew the break up. She is the lead. The show is her. Yet, she kept asking Peter for something, which made no sense if she was there to just break up with him. She should have been more forward like Andi was with Nick and been done with it. “Sorry, you’re not at where you need to be, it is not going to work out, but good luck.” Instead, she basically avoided being in charge there–which she was. Her season. So that is why it was a super weird break up. Rachel handled it bad. It made her ending less dramatic and exciting.

    As to Peter as the lead, I dunno. I think he’ll do fine. I thik it would be different being a lead of he show and picking your one than being one of the 30 being chosen. Especially when you can get one one knee and say “Will you keep dating me”, like Brad and Juan Pablo. After so many seasons of this shows, fans should be savvy enough to do understand it’s only been 3 months. So ees ok.

  7. rob22

    August 9, 2017 at 1:10 PM

    So, did anyone catch the line Peter had about trying to reach out to Rachel, after the show finished taping, through the producers and was denied? What the heck was that all about? And I think the producers booted it on that one. They could have setup some serious Mesnick action for ATFR. Ahhhh, what could have been! Can you imagine how that would have gone down? About like an errant molotov cocktail, I expect.

  8. rob22

    August 9, 2017 at 1:23 PM

    Assessing Peter for The Bachelor. Well, if you set the bar low, we know he wouldn’t been as bad as Ben Flatdick, Juan Pah-blow or Farmer Chris. I think he’d also be better than some of the oldies that almost took the show down in flames: Prince Lorenzo, Bob Guiney, Charlie O’Connell and Andrew Baldwin. He also is not slimy like Nick or Alex Michel…. not that I’m fully opposed to a slimy Bachelor. I thoroughly enjoyed Nick’s silly season.

    For all his problems, I’d imagine Peter would be a middle of the pack Bachelor. Maybe the equivalent of someone like Byron from back in the day. The only problem here is that I think the show needs better than that with it’s sagging ratings. I think I’d go Ben Higgins 2.0. I’m not saying it would happen, it probably won’t, but I think that’s the right call. I think he was a pretty popular Bachelor. I don’t know where else they could go since they seem to not want to go outside of the show. (I’m aware btw that Ben said he wouldn’t do it. But money talks and everything else walks. He, like most of us, has a number that he couldn’t say no to). And the reasons that he gave, to me, weren’t the type of reasons that couldn’t be tossed quickly away. I mean, for the alternative, we’re talking about Peter. Peter who can’t get engaged in 6 weeks, despite that being the premise of the show. The WHOLE premise. Ben’s issues are much easier to move past.

  9. tinyred500

    August 9, 2017 at 2:24 PM

    I’m surprised the producers didn’t sanction that contact, it’s happened in the past, despite it being supposedly against contract rules (yeah, we know they contradict themselves). There must have been another reason….perhaps Rachel wasn’t on board with the idea, who knows! Horrid thing for the chosen one though, really disrespectful, another reason to say no by the lead.

  10. shenanigans

    August 9, 2017 at 3:11 PM

    Crushonspivey: I said this in another thread: I think that Rachel was really confused by the mixed messages that Peter was sending her in Spain. I love you and I see a future with you….. but I’m not there yet and I won’t propose. And, bear in mind, he told her this knowing that she had to make a choice the next day.

    Rachel wanted him to want her, but he didn’t. At least, not enough to take that step. And, when she looks back at it now, with a few months’ perspective, she probably views it the same way she sees her ex of five years: just another guy who wouldn’t commit.

    Rachel felt really badly about that when she was in the moment in Spain. On ATFR, not so much. LOL Now, she has that commitment from Bryan and she’s not looking back.

  11. rob22

    August 9, 2017 at 3:26 PM

    I’m not sure that Rachel “wanted” Peter as much as she wanted him to want her. I think, either way, she picks Bryan. Edited, or not, it seemed pretty straight forward. How many times have we seen a lead appear to be all in with someone and then dump them on the final night? Peter probably lucked out. Much better to go down the way he did than to go down on one knee and then have the bomb dropped on him. And…. the pay day for The Bachelor won’t suck either. It actually couldn’t have ended better for him. I mean, come on, it’s not like him and Rachel were ever going to be married. You have to literally be insane to think that was a possibility.

  12. LM111

    August 9, 2017 at 4:02 PM

    If Rachel planned on picking Bryan the whole time, I’m confused by her “break-up” with Peter. She didn’t need to get into the whole proposal thing at all. What difference would it make anyway? Seems like it was just ego for her. She could have just walked in, told him that she had to let him go, and left. If her intent was to be with Bryan all along, why was she baiting Peter? To embarrass him at the end? I don’t get it.

    Also – I don’t get why some people think he was giving her mixed messages. You can love someone and not be ready to marry that person on the spot (otherwise, we would all get engaged in every single committed relationship we’ve ever had!). Love is great, but it takes time to know if you’re compatible with someone in the long term. Do they compromise when a situation calls for it? Do they argue respectfully and constructively, or do they get ugly when things don’t go their way? Are they selfish or giving by nature? That stuff takes time. He obviously liked her, but she needed him to go into an engagement on blind faith and he was more realistic about it. That doesn’t make him disingenuous in my eyes.

  13. Karen

    August 9, 2017 at 7:53 PM

    Steve, I think it’s time for you to share what you know about Peter! K? Thanks!

  14. shamelessbachfan

    August 9, 2017 at 8:09 PM

    Completely agree with everything you said!

  15. missmanners

    August 9, 2017 at 9:34 PM

    You have the patience of Job to read through tons of emails asking the same questions and making the same accusations over and over again. Holy water, Steve. Holy. Water. But seriously, what a sugar honey ice tea show that finale was and now the inmates are running the asylum. The vilifying of Rachel and Bryan. The mental gymnastics used to justify Peter’s every word and action. Astounding. There needs to be a lecture in PSY101 on this. Well, at least there’s a few months of calm before full-on Peter Mania is unleashed via The Bachelor. Sharpening my stakes as we speak.

  16. tinyred500

    August 10, 2017 at 4:33 AM

    @LM111, I agree with what you state and you make some very true and valid points.

    The whole premise of the shows is that the lead will propose or be proposed too, that’s the tagline the audience is spoon fed throughout each season. Whether this aligns with the viewer is another thing entirely. It’s pretty much realism versus fantasyland. I for one have no problem with no proposal at the end…it almost makes it more real…how many have we actually seen though? So, from a producers prospective it seems a proposal or else…no one (appears to) gets a good edit if they don’t propose…and majority of the audience don’t like it either.

    I personally think they should reintroduce a promise ring option, ‘maybe’ they would get a higher percentage rate in successful unions.

    I have a lot of respect for the ones who have made it through though. Not only for successfully picking the right one for them, but for surviving the awful aftermath of the season airing etc., and all that entails, it must be Hell on earth. Kudos to them.

  17. ashleigh11

    August 10, 2017 at 6:06 AM

    If Rachel forced Peter to bend on his values and get down on one knee, only to say “actually, thanks, but i decided no” in favour of Bryan, I’m pretty sure the social media universe would have destroyed her. So Peter has a romanticized view of only wanting to get down on one knee once in his life – either Bryan was default or Rachel is an awful human being for wanting to take that from Peter only to reject him. Either way – the final couple falls completely flat for me.

    I loved Rachel as the Bachelorette because she was smart, capable and intelligent, but the whole ‘ring or nothing’ bit turned me off. I know she’s probably contractually obliged to force it, but like others in the franchise, she could have paved her own way and followed her heart. She wanted the guarantee, but a ring doesn’t offer that – it just means that someone is cool with potentially being engaged multiple times in their life.

    I do hope Peter is the next Bachelor. The man is hot and we haven’t had a legit hot Bachelor in forever. I couldn’t care less if he was into Rachel or just wasn’t feeling it enough in the end, or whether we get a proposal at the end of these shows – just keep it interesting and give us some eye candy in the meantime.

    Can’t wait for BIP. I feel like I endure Bachelor/Bachelorette just to get to the crazy fun of BIP.

  18. rob22

    August 10, 2017 at 7:17 AM

    I was reading the summaries of the past Bachelor seasons and it seems that most of the men did not propose in the first several seasons. I didn’t look at the Bachelorette seasons, but I think most, if not all of them proposed. But, now it has become mandatory. I imagine Peter will need to sign in blood that he will propose to someone before they write him the check. Still…. I want to see Ben 2.0. Peter’s nice, and all, but just seems like a mediocre Bachelor. I know RS will say that the lead doesn’t make the show, but a boring lead does effect the show negatively.

  19. weird

    August 10, 2017 at 12:54 PM

    @ashleigh11 nailed it on everything, most importantly how long it’s been since we had a legit hot bachelor. I’m barely holding on after Nick’s season. Peter or bust.

  20. ladyjane747

    August 11, 2017 at 8:13 PM

    So obvious that Rachel was into Bryan and vice versa all season. Don’t see how anyone could’ve missed that! The Peter relationship was just for drama and TV. Rachel’s a smart woman. Peter’s not at her level – an attorney and a personal trainer/model? Ahhh, no. Dude couldn’t even spell “coitus.” LOL If he is the Bachelor, I hope they can give him some uppers or something; he’s so sloooow.

  21. upmyalley

    August 11, 2017 at 8:15 PM

    I don’t remember which rag I read it in but Peter has wanted to be the bachelor since high school. It was his desire to get all the hot babes. The whole season he has been auditioning. He hasn’t fooled me one bit. He wants all those women drooling all over him. As far as Rachel, well, even though she’s smart and pretty she’s not beautiful and she, like all the others, is just another franchise puppet. It became obvious when she keep waboom guy and Lee and such and such. Lol Same ole song and dance my friends. Bryan is creepy and a suck face.

  22. katieottawa

    August 12, 2017 at 1:08 AM

    OMG I just made it through the readers emails. I command the patience of reality steve because it was enough to want to gauge my eyes out. Seriously some people really need to give their head a shake. Why do people even care about any of this??? “If its not peter who do you think will be next bachelor?” All you people really need to get back to the real world and quit obsessing about these celebrity wannabees. Its a silly show with fake people, fake edits, fake storylines. You obsessing over it really isnt going to change anything or move things quicker. If steve says he thinks its peter why is that not good enough but instead feel the need to press on to hear something different and instead throw out some what if scenario. Complete waste of time.

    I must really be in the minority where i watch it a bit but forget all about it 5 minutes later and couldnt care less who she chooses, and who will get the bachelor gig. Why people give 2 rats ass about any of these people who they have never met is beyond me.

    Dont any of you have anything more important and worthy to consume your time with than some stupid reality show??

  23. tater

    August 19, 2017 at 2:34 AM

    He reached out to Rachel and she denied him. She had nothing to say to him. He was trying to get back together essentially.

  24. tater

    August 19, 2017 at 2:44 AM

    It’s a tv show that everything has to be elaborated on. They probably talk for a minute and she said I’m breaking up with you because you don’t want to get married and producers probably said no please elaborate and talk about it more in depth so then you see that long drawn out process.

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