Reader Emails

“Reader Emails,” & Peter Talks About Potentially Being the Bachelor

Photo Credit: ABC

Why are Peter crazies so hypocritical? They are defending Peter saying that he’s realistic, and that no one would be ready to be engaged in 2 months- yet that’s what these crazy people are always watching the show for. Peter crazies are one of a kind… I bet they all hated Juan Pablo too… It’s nut jobs, not crazies.

Now the crazies will send Bryan so much hate saying that Rachel settled for him… as if she wasn’t gonna pick him regardless. That’s why it’s pointless to converse with them. Your head will explode.

LOL, Steve you unleashed some monsters with your initial spoiler.

Also, if you had to take a wild guess, do you think Rachel slept with both Bryan and Peter or just Bryan? My guess is both.

Finally, how come the show decided to go with this new finale format? I found that it completely “spoiled” any excitement, especially when they brought Peter out after he was eliminated.

Comment: Yes, if they had to do it over again, the Peter elimination then couch visit before the proposal to Bryan ever happened, 1) ruined any suspense 2) killed the mood.

Hi Steve,

I have a few opinions about Rachel’s season I wanted to share with you.

1) I feel that Rachel only picked Bryan because she knew that Peter wasn’t that into her. I completely disagree.

2) I feel that this season was the most boring. Disagree.

3) I really liked Rachel on Nicks season, and the start of her season, but in the middle I couldn’t stand her anymore. Not me.

4) I think her and Bryan will last maybe till after the new season of The Bachelor because I sure don’t see them even lasting a year.

Comment: No doubt in my mind this emailer is Team Peter. There’s no middle ground. If you like/love/worship the ground Peter walks on, you don’t like Rachel. And vice versa.

Hello Steve,

Long time reader, first time writing in. Of course you were right about Bryan. Anyone with half a brain could’ve seen that she was going to pick him like three episodes in. Still, the Peter crazies are losing their goddamn minds.

If you’re looking to observe some serious batsh**tery, head over to the Bachelor subreddit where Peter crazies are whining about how “obvious” it is that Rachel loves Peter not Bryan, calling Rachel a b**ch, and saying that they can’t wait to read her “It’s Not Okay” book. THEY’RE F***ING SAYING THEY CAN’T WAIT TO READ HOW BRYAN WILL ABUSE HER. WHAT THE F**K.

I’ve never been so disgusted by a group of Bachelor fans. I don’t believe in the whole “finding love in two months” thing but Rachel looks happy with Bryan. Isn’t that what matters? Apparently not. Apparently what matters is real people on TV caving to the whims of an audience that only sees what the producers want them to see.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I’m just so over these rabid Peter fans. Thank you for keeping it real through this whole season.

Comment: I rest my case.

Hey Steve! Congrats on accurately spoiling another season!

1) why do people hate Bryan so much. Seems like bachelor nation is disappointed with her choice even tho Bryan wasn’t really the villain this reason? And didn’t do anything wrong.’I mean Peter didn’t want to propose? Even tho Brad did this, and Juan Pablo and people hated them for it. But when Peter does it it’s admirable? That’s why I always say people have very short term memories when it comes to this show.

2) why did the finale focus so much on Peter? it made it seem like she was left with Bryan and not actually choose him. Part of the reason why people aren’t believing Rachel and Bryan is exactly because of this. I don’t think the finale and how the ATFR played really helped Rachel and Bryan’s relationship. I’m guessing they’re glad it’s over and they don’t care anymore.

3) For the Bachelor, are the ladies allowed to maintain grooming necessities like spray tans, mani/pedi, hair extensions, lawn extensions, hair color, working out etc. if so, where do they get it done.

Comment: I don’t know about all of those, but this isn’t “Survivor” and they’re out on an island. I’m sure you can bring all that stuff and use it.

Hi Steve!

What in the friggin’ world…?The Peter cult is TOO MUCH. I have to stay away from fan pages. There are STILL hordes of people ragging on Rachel for not choosing to bend to St. Peter wishes, even after he made it abundantly clear he wasn’t into her. They bought his reasoning for not wanting to propose. “He’s so smart and reasonable.” Meanwhile, Juan Pablo was cyber stoned for doing the same thing. Why was Peter on a quickie-engagement show, then? And if he signs up to be the lead on the Bachelor, why? It’s a quickie-engagement show. He knows that. What in the world is going on? Is me or are these people just CRAZY??? Did we watch the same show???? Oh, and some people believe Peter will turn down the Bachelor gig if it is offered. What do you think the chances are that he will turn it down? Damn, he’s good. He should go into acting. He didn’t fool me, but he fooled A LOT of

Comment: No, they’re crazy and not living in reality.

The quote Peter gave post show that I linked to on page 1 is all you need to know on how easy it would be for Peter to be the “Bachelor” despite of what he said and did on the “Bachelorette.” Hell, the guy is basically telling us what his narrative will be.

Hi Steve,

Long time reader, first time emailing…

I am noticing that the social media reaction to Rachel choosing Bryan is overwhelmingly negative. I think it’s the most negative reaction I’ve seen for a finale outside of Ben and Courtney. I know you said that the “Peter crazies” would be going nuts, but it seems to me that mainstream viewers are believing that she chose “a ring” over what may have been a stronger connection with Peter.

I will say that Rachel’s reaction to seeing Peter in the studio was interesting. She was unnecessarily rude to him about the comment he made at their last date about choosing a mediocre life over him. Peter immediately apologized and she basically threw it back in his face. I almost got the impression that she was going out of her way to prove to Bryan that she didn’t have strong feelings for Peter in order to save her relationship and engagement. For example, making a point to insert comments about how there were things in Geneva that made her believe that Peter was not the best fit for her. I didn’t really believe what she was saying based on what was shown during her final two dates with Peter.

And, what about her saying something to the effect of “this process just isn’t right for someone like you.” ?? ~And she said it more than once. It seems like she was attempting to sabotage his chances at being the bachelor.

What are your thoughts about her interactions with Peter on stage?

Comment: That Peter is basically Jesus on earth and Rachel is the devil.

Hi Steve!

You probably already said this but I missed it. Were the fantasy suite dates and the final two dates shot in the same order they aired? That I don’t know.

I don’t live tweet so please forgive the rant that’s about to follow.

Did you see the shot where Bryan picked up Rachel off the bed the morning after the fantasy suite? His hand was totally in her butt crack. That is not how you pick up someone. Awkward! I missed that.

Has Bryan said anything all season to Rachel that actually had substance besides superficial words like “perfect”, “wonderful”, “forever”? Sheesh.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to shoot that proposal scene in that wind should be fired.

I liked Rachel all season until last week at MTA. She was unnecessarily harsh the majority of the night. And now after the way she treated Peter in the live segment, I dislike her even more. Saying the emotions she was feeling their last night was because it reminded her of her last relationship basically just dismissed her entire relationship with Peter. Her reaction when he tried to apologize for the “mediocre” comment. Was that really necessary? And her telling him “this process isn’t for you” was like she doesn’t want him to be the next bachelor. Peter handled the whole live portion so well. I feel so bad for him. Shame on Rachel. Maybe she has to act this way now to keep Bryan happy and to make people think she made the right decision. Still. Lame.

Even with your spoiler and knowing who she chose, I still cried during the breakup scene with Peter. I know. This stuff isn’t real. Such a sucker I am.

As we get ready for BIP, can you please remind me which girls went on with boyfriends?

Thanks again for all that you do!

Comment: You cried at the break up scene with Peter. That’s all I needed to know.

As for BIP, Corinne definitely did. Alexis definitely did. And now I’m forgetting the other two. Dammit. But those two for sure.

Couple questions for you.

So I started typing these email DURING the finale and my mind may have changed a little but I figured I’d still send this thought/question in.

If I’m correct I believe you stated contestants are contracted for two years with the show and after that time expires there are still rules however they’re able to talk more freely. I’ve seen and heard past final 4 contestants say they wanted to leave the show because they didn’t want/couldn’t see them getting engaged to the lead and producers talk them into staying and having the lead send them home. (I forgot who it was but I remember a past contestant on your podcast tell the story how he told the producers he wanted to leave and even though it sounded like the lead would have chosen him producers made a deal for him to be sent home by the lead rather than him leaving on his own) but I’m curious if This happened with Peter. This whole season his feelings seemed a little off (or should I say a little off for this show however very realistic in everyday life) until tonight’s episode he seemed somewhat upset and I’m not sure if he was just putting on an act or not.. he almost sold me lol. But I am curious to see if 1) Peter wanted out and 2) If he did would he ever admit to it. That I don’t know. Only Peter and production would truly know the answer to that. Maybe when we’re far removed from this season he’ll tell someone in an interview or something, but would it surprise me? No. It’s happened many times before. Thus making that whole break up scene the reason why I always say “this is a television show.” Rachel admitted she went to Peter’s room to break up with him. He didn’t spring this on her. She was done. What’s she gonna do, walk in the room, say, “Peter, it’s over. Bye,” and walk out? Of course not. It’s TV. They HAVE to have a talk, they HAVE to drag it out, and they HAVE to say and do things for the camera. That’s why I think people are taking that scene and their frustrations out on Rachel for the wrong reasons. Well, the Peter crazies are. Because they’re whole hatred towards her is because of that convo, and to me, that convo was for TV. That’s why I don’t get worked up over it.

2. I know you said that Kristina left on her own because of the love triangle and that Dean then tells Dlo he loves Kristina and leaves but that he is currently dating DLO right now. Have you heard if Dean tried to get Kristina back and she said now she went back to DLO? He definitely tried to talk to her.

3. Did Rachel seem a little angry with Peter to you? Kind of shocked how different she was with Eric on after the final rose then how she responded to Peter. Two totally different relationships.

4. Is Becca someone you would want to come be a guest on your podcast?

Comment: There’s a lot of people I’d like on my podcast from this franchise that haven’t come on.

hello! 2 questions…

1) do you think peter was being sincere? i know you say a lot of them act like that but don’t mean it but that seemed more sincere than most runner ups… and im not a huge peter lover. Sincere about what part?

2) what do you think about the one big clique of girls from last season? granted, every season has girls that become such close friends but they seem like they think they run bachelor world. it’s not fun to follow them on social media or see their snapchats.

Comment: Then don’t. Seems like a simple solution.

I have watched the whole season and though I like Peter, I was more of a Dean and Eric fan. However, the way Rachel handled the break-up with Peter has me seeing her in a whole new light. I thought she came off as very insensitive and uncaring while Peter was clearly still emotional over the break-up, especially when she made the “I’m living my best life” in that sassy tone. Peter was the sane one here. They have only known each other for 6 weeks and she still had another guy left. Of course he wants to get to know her in the real world first. That’s such a simple answer to give. I pretty much gave my thoughts on this yesterday.

Do you think Rachel would have chosen Peter if he had been willing to propose? No.

Do you think Peter will still be the next bachelor after this? He seems far too reasonable for this show and Rachel called him out for it as well. How can they twist this into making him ready to be the bachelor?

Comment: Read page 1.

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  1. anita29

    August 9, 2017 at 9:02 AM

    OMG! I cannot believe how many people drank the Peter “Kool aid”! This guy was not into Rachel. Please go back to the ABC online page and read the question on Peter’s profile:
    “What’s the closest you have ever come to being married?”
    My ex of two years. I was looking at rings after just THREE months.”
    So, for this girl he was willing to commit in just three months, but for Rachel, no.
    PLeasseeeee… He was paving the road to be chosen as the next Bachelor.
    I wish Rachel and Bryan the best of luck. I think people forget how much editing this show
    involves and I think Bryan got a very bad edit. I bet he’s a fantastic guy and that is why Rachel chose him.

  2. tinyred500

    August 9, 2017 at 10:08 AM

    I totally understand that it’s a heavily produced and edited show. The producers want to sway the audience to think who the favourites are. I’m sure each season the lead has their own narrative that’s part of the storyline too…all to keep the audience guessing and erm glued to the telly!

    Over previous seasons we’ve seen so called favourites come and go. Look at Des and Brooks, we were lead to believe it was only Brooks for her, it was a theme throughout her season, then he left because he didn’t love her etc., and she was left devastated. Or was she? Was it really also just as much about Chris, but his narrative was a hidden one and the audience was purposely mislead? So Rachael’s season perhaps isn’t so different from previous ones. I don’t care one iota who picks who, it makes no difference to my life. However, I’d never ever compare a relationship outside of the show to the so called one on the show, because it isn’t a relationship and they aren’t really dating per se. It’s an elaborate and over the top form of speed dating, with the minimum time spent (with the lead) in hope they can garner as much info they need to decide who’s the right fit, and that’s if they are sincere.

  3. jessie

    August 9, 2017 at 10:15 AM

    Oh wow are the Peter nuts, NUTS! It’s kind of funny – because it’s so like girlfriends I know in real life – creating a fantasy person in the body of a real person who fit’s their personal taste and they make every excuse for the guy. Funny and sad! It’s going to be a nightmare when this guy is bachelor. Man, I hope something happens to stop that!

  4. shenanigans

    August 9, 2017 at 10:27 AM

    I don’t understand why people are accusing Rachel of “throwing shade” at Peter when she said that the show wasn’t for him. She was simply stating the truth: that he couldn’t propose to someone he only knew for six weeks. He clearly said that to her. It’s not like it’s something she just pulled out of her butt. LOL

    Now, Peter is backtracking by saying that he was open to the possibility, maybe under different circumstances, yada, yada, yada. However, that doesn’t change the truth: he wasn’t willing to do it for Rachel, and she had every right to say that to him.

  5. tinyred500

    August 9, 2017 at 10:41 AM

    Do you not think that peeps in general are nuts for watching such a cheesy and silly show to start with?! Lol I do and yes, I include myself! Lol

  6. crushonspivey

    August 9, 2017 at 12:45 PM

    Have to admit, the format they used for the finale did Rachel zero favors. I think they tried a new approach simply because the ending was different, but they should have stuck with how Andi did it. It would have been more fair to Bryan, and to Rachel.

    Instead, that Peter break up was the high point, and the engagement was basically an afterthought to the finale. And it is supposed to be the crescendo to the season. It wasn’t. It seemed almost fake and contrived.

    I also think Rachel sort of blew the break up. She is the lead. The show is her. Yet, she kept asking Peter for something, which made no sense if she was there to just break up with him. She should have been more forward like Andi was with Nick and been done with it. “Sorry, you’re not at where you need to be, it is not going to work out, but good luck.” Instead, she basically avoided being in charge there–which she was. Her season. So that is why it was a super weird break up. Rachel handled it bad. It made her ending less dramatic and exciting.

    As to Peter as the lead, I dunno. I think he’ll do fine. I thik it would be different being a lead of he show and picking your one than being one of the 30 being chosen. Especially when you can get one one knee and say “Will you keep dating me”, like Brad and Juan Pablo. After so many seasons of this shows, fans should be savvy enough to do understand it’s only been 3 months. So ees ok.

  7. rob22

    August 9, 2017 at 1:10 PM

    So, did anyone catch the line Peter had about trying to reach out to Rachel, after the show finished taping, through the producers and was denied? What the heck was that all about? And I think the producers booted it on that one. They could have setup some serious Mesnick action for ATFR. Ahhhh, what could have been! Can you imagine how that would have gone down? About like an errant molotov cocktail, I expect.

  8. rob22

    August 9, 2017 at 1:23 PM

    Assessing Peter for The Bachelor. Well, if you set the bar low, we know he wouldn’t been as bad as Ben Flatdick, Juan Pah-blow or Farmer Chris. I think he’d also be better than some of the oldies that almost took the show down in flames: Prince Lorenzo, Bob Guiney, Charlie O’Connell and Andrew Baldwin. He also is not slimy like Nick or Alex Michel…. not that I’m fully opposed to a slimy Bachelor. I thoroughly enjoyed Nick’s silly season.

    For all his problems, I’d imagine Peter would be a middle of the pack Bachelor. Maybe the equivalent of someone like Byron from back in the day. The only problem here is that I think the show needs better than that with it’s sagging ratings. I think I’d go Ben Higgins 2.0. I’m not saying it would happen, it probably won’t, but I think that’s the right call. I think he was a pretty popular Bachelor. I don’t know where else they could go since they seem to not want to go outside of the show. (I’m aware btw that Ben said he wouldn’t do it. But money talks and everything else walks. He, like most of us, has a number that he couldn’t say no to). And the reasons that he gave, to me, weren’t the type of reasons that couldn’t be tossed quickly away. I mean, for the alternative, we’re talking about Peter. Peter who can’t get engaged in 6 weeks, despite that being the premise of the show. The WHOLE premise. Ben’s issues are much easier to move past.

  9. tinyred500

    August 9, 2017 at 2:24 PM

    I’m surprised the producers didn’t sanction that contact, it’s happened in the past, despite it being supposedly against contract rules (yeah, we know they contradict themselves). There must have been another reason….perhaps Rachel wasn’t on board with the idea, who knows! Horrid thing for the chosen one though, really disrespectful, another reason to say no by the lead.

  10. shenanigans

    August 9, 2017 at 3:11 PM

    Crushonspivey: I said this in another thread: I think that Rachel was really confused by the mixed messages that Peter was sending her in Spain. I love you and I see a future with you….. but I’m not there yet and I won’t propose. And, bear in mind, he told her this knowing that she had to make a choice the next day.

    Rachel wanted him to want her, but he didn’t. At least, not enough to take that step. And, when she looks back at it now, with a few months’ perspective, she probably views it the same way she sees her ex of five years: just another guy who wouldn’t commit.

    Rachel felt really badly about that when she was in the moment in Spain. On ATFR, not so much. LOL Now, she has that commitment from Bryan and she’s not looking back.

  11. rob22

    August 9, 2017 at 3:26 PM

    I’m not sure that Rachel “wanted” Peter as much as she wanted him to want her. I think, either way, she picks Bryan. Edited, or not, it seemed pretty straight forward. How many times have we seen a lead appear to be all in with someone and then dump them on the final night? Peter probably lucked out. Much better to go down the way he did than to go down on one knee and then have the bomb dropped on him. And…. the pay day for The Bachelor won’t suck either. It actually couldn’t have ended better for him. I mean, come on, it’s not like him and Rachel were ever going to be married. You have to literally be insane to think that was a possibility.

  12. LM111

    August 9, 2017 at 4:02 PM

    If Rachel planned on picking Bryan the whole time, I’m confused by her “break-up” with Peter. She didn’t need to get into the whole proposal thing at all. What difference would it make anyway? Seems like it was just ego for her. She could have just walked in, told him that she had to let him go, and left. If her intent was to be with Bryan all along, why was she baiting Peter? To embarrass him at the end? I don’t get it.

    Also – I don’t get why some people think he was giving her mixed messages. You can love someone and not be ready to marry that person on the spot (otherwise, we would all get engaged in every single committed relationship we’ve ever had!). Love is great, but it takes time to know if you’re compatible with someone in the long term. Do they compromise when a situation calls for it? Do they argue respectfully and constructively, or do they get ugly when things don’t go their way? Are they selfish or giving by nature? That stuff takes time. He obviously liked her, but she needed him to go into an engagement on blind faith and he was more realistic about it. That doesn’t make him disingenuous in my eyes.

  13. Karen

    August 9, 2017 at 7:53 PM

    Steve, I think it’s time for you to share what you know about Peter! K? Thanks!

  14. shamelessbachfan

    August 9, 2017 at 8:09 PM

    Completely agree with everything you said!

  15. missmanners

    August 9, 2017 at 9:34 PM

    You have the patience of Job to read through tons of emails asking the same questions and making the same accusations over and over again. Holy water, Steve. Holy. Water. But seriously, what a sugar honey ice tea show that finale was and now the inmates are running the asylum. The vilifying of Rachel and Bryan. The mental gymnastics used to justify Peter’s every word and action. Astounding. There needs to be a lecture in PSY101 on this. Well, at least there’s a few months of calm before full-on Peter Mania is unleashed via The Bachelor. Sharpening my stakes as we speak.

  16. tinyred500

    August 10, 2017 at 4:33 AM

    @LM111, I agree with what you state and you make some very true and valid points.

    The whole premise of the shows is that the lead will propose or be proposed too, that’s the tagline the audience is spoon fed throughout each season. Whether this aligns with the viewer is another thing entirely. It’s pretty much realism versus fantasyland. I for one have no problem with no proposal at the end…it almost makes it more real…how many have we actually seen though? So, from a producers prospective it seems a proposal or else…no one (appears to) gets a good edit if they don’t propose…and majority of the audience don’t like it either.

    I personally think they should reintroduce a promise ring option, ‘maybe’ they would get a higher percentage rate in successful unions.

    I have a lot of respect for the ones who have made it through though. Not only for successfully picking the right one for them, but for surviving the awful aftermath of the season airing etc., and all that entails, it must be Hell on earth. Kudos to them.

  17. ashleigh11

    August 10, 2017 at 6:06 AM

    If Rachel forced Peter to bend on his values and get down on one knee, only to say “actually, thanks, but i decided no” in favour of Bryan, I’m pretty sure the social media universe would have destroyed her. So Peter has a romanticized view of only wanting to get down on one knee once in his life – either Bryan was default or Rachel is an awful human being for wanting to take that from Peter only to reject him. Either way – the final couple falls completely flat for me.

    I loved Rachel as the Bachelorette because she was smart, capable and intelligent, but the whole ‘ring or nothing’ bit turned me off. I know she’s probably contractually obliged to force it, but like others in the franchise, she could have paved her own way and followed her heart. She wanted the guarantee, but a ring doesn’t offer that – it just means that someone is cool with potentially being engaged multiple times in their life.

    I do hope Peter is the next Bachelor. The man is hot and we haven’t had a legit hot Bachelor in forever. I couldn’t care less if he was into Rachel or just wasn’t feeling it enough in the end, or whether we get a proposal at the end of these shows – just keep it interesting and give us some eye candy in the meantime.

    Can’t wait for BIP. I feel like I endure Bachelor/Bachelorette just to get to the crazy fun of BIP.

  18. rob22

    August 10, 2017 at 7:17 AM

    I was reading the summaries of the past Bachelor seasons and it seems that most of the men did not propose in the first several seasons. I didn’t look at the Bachelorette seasons, but I think most, if not all of them proposed. But, now it has become mandatory. I imagine Peter will need to sign in blood that he will propose to someone before they write him the check. Still…. I want to see Ben 2.0. Peter’s nice, and all, but just seems like a mediocre Bachelor. I know RS will say that the lead doesn’t make the show, but a boring lead does effect the show negatively.

  19. weird

    August 10, 2017 at 12:54 PM

    @ashleigh11 nailed it on everything, most importantly how long it’s been since we had a legit hot bachelor. I’m barely holding on after Nick’s season. Peter or bust.

  20. ladyjane747

    August 11, 2017 at 8:13 PM

    So obvious that Rachel was into Bryan and vice versa all season. Don’t see how anyone could’ve missed that! The Peter relationship was just for drama and TV. Rachel’s a smart woman. Peter’s not at her level – an attorney and a personal trainer/model? Ahhh, no. Dude couldn’t even spell “coitus.” LOL If he is the Bachelor, I hope they can give him some uppers or something; he’s so sloooow.

  21. upmyalley

    August 11, 2017 at 8:15 PM

    I don’t remember which rag I read it in but Peter has wanted to be the bachelor since high school. It was his desire to get all the hot babes. The whole season he has been auditioning. He hasn’t fooled me one bit. He wants all those women drooling all over him. As far as Rachel, well, even though she’s smart and pretty she’s not beautiful and she, like all the others, is just another franchise puppet. It became obvious when she keep waboom guy and Lee and such and such. Lol Same ole song and dance my friends. Bryan is creepy and a suck face.

  22. katieottawa

    August 12, 2017 at 1:08 AM

    OMG I just made it through the readers emails. I command the patience of reality steve because it was enough to want to gauge my eyes out. Seriously some people really need to give their head a shake. Why do people even care about any of this??? “If its not peter who do you think will be next bachelor?” All you people really need to get back to the real world and quit obsessing about these celebrity wannabees. Its a silly show with fake people, fake edits, fake storylines. You obsessing over it really isnt going to change anything or move things quicker. If steve says he thinks its peter why is that not good enough but instead feel the need to press on to hear something different and instead throw out some what if scenario. Complete waste of time.

    I must really be in the minority where i watch it a bit but forget all about it 5 minutes later and couldnt care less who she chooses, and who will get the bachelor gig. Why people give 2 rats ass about any of these people who they have never met is beyond me.

    Dont any of you have anything more important and worthy to consume your time with than some stupid reality show??

  23. tater

    August 19, 2017 at 2:34 AM

    He reached out to Rachel and she denied him. She had nothing to say to him. He was trying to get back together essentially.

  24. tater

    August 19, 2017 at 2:44 AM

    It’s a tv show that everything has to be elaborated on. They probably talk for a minute and she said I’m breaking up with you because you don’t want to get married and producers probably said no please elaborate and talk about it more in depth so then you see that long drawn out process.

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