Another big Tuesday filled with a ton of information “Bachelorette” and even “Bachelor” related. So many things to get to. In order: this week’s podcast guest (which I’m very excited for), “Love Island” ratings, Peter’s ex speaks out (page 1), “Men Tell All” spoilers (page 2), a new venture the “Bachelor” is doing, ratings, Hannah & Tyler & just rumors surrounding them (page 3), a transcription from Luke and Hannah’s conversation at dinner last night, along with the twitter war that took place between them late last night (page 4), and then my thoughts on their disagreement, where Luke went wrong, where Hannah may have exaggerated a bit, a Christian readers thought, and preview for next week (page 5). A shit ton of things to get this week and because I’m such a procrastinator, that’s why it’s up a little later today. I swear I’m the worst. You should’ve seen me last night. The show ends at 9pm CST, and I didn’t write my first word until about 12:45pm because I’m a dilly dallier. Watched “Love Island,” watched RAW, texted people, had a conversation – just did everything I could to not sit down and write. Then I did at 12:45, wrote for about 30 minutes, went to bed, up at 7:00am, then didn’t start writing til 8:00. This exercise is basically wash, rinse, repeat every week.
Get your “Reader Emails” in today for tomorrow’s column. I’m sure you’ll have plenty to say on Luke. I might need to limit how many of those get in just because I have a feeling it’ll be repetitive. At the end of last week’s podcast, I mentioned that this week we could possibly have someone a long time coming and that was mentioned recently. Well it happened. Vienna Girardi will be on this week’s podcast as we recorded last Thursday. She was excellent and had some very insightful stories about her time with Jake. Also, she really went a lot deeper into her tragic story from 2 years ago losing her twins at 5 months than I thought she would. It got emotional as it would for anyone talking about that again. I can’t wait for you to hear it.
So “Love Island” started last Tuesday night on CBS last week and is running 5 night a week. It’s very popular overseas, and CBS took a huge gamble giving it a one month run and putting it on every night but Saturday and Sunday. Here were the ratings for the first 5 episodes:
Tuesday 7/9 – 2.61 million viewers (.6 rating)
Wednesday 7/10 – 2.59 million (.6 rating)
Thursday 7/11 – 2.51 million (.6 rating)
Friday – 7/12 – 2.03 million (.4 rating)
Monday – 7/15 – 2.11 million (.5 rating)
So basically it draws half the overall audience than the “Bachelorette” does, and about 40% of their rating. And it’s trending downward. I watched all 4 last week (and watched last nights), and the thing is, there’s just nothing really happening. We’ve seen this before. Like, a month ago and it was called “Paradise Hotel.” Tell me how it’s different. Guys and girls immediately couple up, they lay around the house all day talking about who likes who and who vibes with who, they have to sleep in the same bed with the person, then someone gets eliminated because they haven’t paired up yet. They’ve had three challenges that gave no one any sort of advantage in the game until last night’s that wasn’t much of an advantage. They’re just there to, well, I don’t know why they’re there. I just don’t know why CBS thought this was going to be some revolution in the reality TV dating world. It’s old, it’s tired, and nothing about that show is popping yet. Maybe it will at some point, I don’t know. I’ll stick with it through this week, but CBS is in trouble with numbers like those and committed for 22 episodes. Yikes.
So the big story to come out yesterday was Peter’s ex, Calee Lutes, did an interview with ET about their relationship. As you know, the week after the Haley story broke, I was going to run my interview with Calee about her relationship with Peter when she told me she saw the backlash Haley was getting and decided against it. Calee texted me yesterday morning giving me a heads up saying she had spoken to them and it would be running soon, but felt she should let me know first because we had been in contact since March. Reading her interview was nothing new. She had told me the exact same thing.
I think it’s short sighted, and probably coming from a place of bias, if your response is, “What’s the big deal? He broke up with her, it was December three months before he started filming, and they only dated for 5 months.” Yes, in a vacuum that argument sounds great. But because he broke in December and didn’t leave for filming til March, if you really think that this out of the blue breakup had NOTHING to do with him in contact with the show, then I’ve got some real cheap land to sell you. While he was emotionally involved with Calee and talking about moving her to CA, Peter is in talks with the Bachelorette. You don’t see anything wrong with that? I do. And I know Peter’s defense will be to say the Bachelorette wasn’t on the radar at the time of the breakup. Which is fine. I just choose not to believe that in the least bit because his texts and actions speak otherwise. Did you read the text messages? It’s more than just the time spent together. Families were involved. I Love You’s were exchanged. Efforts to move her to California were talked about. And then the relationship ends over a phone call out of the blue with no real explanation, only to find out he did the show? I know Peter fans will defend this, and no one’s saying Peter is the devil, Peter is a horrible human being, or Peter should be burned at the stake. Hell, I don’t think what he did was worse than Jed, but it doesn’t mean what he did wasn’t really sh***y to do to someone you cared about. It looks horrible. You don’t treat people this way. Because you don’t think it’s as bad as what Jed did, and therefore isn’t a story, is not what we’re arguing here.
Because this isn’t as egregious as Jed’s transgression, doesn’t mean Calee doesn’t have a right to share it, or that it’s “not a story” as some people who’ve hung out with Peter and taken pictures with him so eloquently put it yesterday. Yes, it is a story, and by saying it’s NOT a story, you’re immediately discrediting Calee and not giving her a voice. Or, basically saying her voice means nothing. Man, Bachelor Nation contestants will defend the ones they like to the death, screw objectivity. And of course you saw plenty of “she’s doing this for 15 minutes” or “she wants to be famous” replies yesterday, which is clearly ignorance, or Peter’s militia that refuse to see anything negative. Calee has already moved on and in a new relationship. This isn’t jealousy. She’s not going to all the sudden start appearing on TV shows everywhere, etc. This whole “she wants to be famous” line people love to throw out is so hollow. What does that even mean? What exactly is Calee gonna be “famous” for now for telling her story? Let me make this as simple as possible for everyone defending Peter now: Take this exact story that came out yesterday, and replace Peter with Luke P., would you still be saying “big deal?” No, you wouldn’t. You would be killing him because you’ve already been trained to not like him. But because Peter is cute and has dimples and hasn’t had any negative edit this season, it means it’s somehow not as bad to you.
The bottom line is this happened to Calee. This was her experience with Peter. I know it to be true because I’ve seen texts and pictures over the last 3 months that she shared with me from their relationship that back up everything she said in that story, along with talking to her on numerous occasions. She can tell her story to whoever she wants to and whenever she wants to. Doesn’t mean it’s not true. She didn’t get paid for it, you know she was struggling with telling it because she didn’t want our interview posted two weeks ago after all the hate that Haley got coming forward. Go look at Calee’s IG page now. Read the comments coming in. And you wonder why she waited so long? It’s trolls like that who make women everywhere afraid to speak. If you contributed to that in any way, you should be ashamed of yourself. “He wasn’t that into her. Get over it” is paraphrasing what the general consensus was saying. Seriously? Did you people even read the interview? If you’re going to minimize the whole relationship down to that, then you’re a lost cause and completely being biased towards Peter. And people who do that are irrelevant. Unreal that because he broke up with her, that means her story isn’t worth anything. Any woman who is backing Peter in this, remember how I said replace Peter’s name with Luke P.’s earlier and see how that would change reaction? Now replace Calee’s name in this story with yours. If this happened to you, you’re telling me you wouldn’t be pissed at the guy? Please. You’d be hurt and mad. She has a right to be, so let her.
“Men Tell All” spoilers on Page 2…
July 16, 2019 at 10:16 AM
Steve, I totally agree with everything you said. Especially the synopsis given by the Christian gal; also agree that this did not need to be aired on national television. Definitely was a conversation for the two of them to have had in private. But as you say, this is the way they operate- it’s all about the ratings! I agree with you that Luke is just not self-aware; he seems to backpedal many times on what he says unfortunately. So obviously this makes him come across as very disingenuous. But when you agree to go on national television -Especially on this show! you need to be ready for the continual scrutiny of anything and everything you do or say. Honestly I would certainly not be ready for marriage or even a relationship with anyone who is currently sleeping with other men or women. Certainly I don’t think Hannah was ready for any type of proposal. And also as you said we all have the right to do as we wish! Unfortunately just did not work out for Hannah. Also have to say I am extremely disappointed in both Peter and Jed, both are very dishonest guys.
July 16, 2019 at 10:57 AM
Agree with most of what you wrote. However, in talking to my daughters who are Hannah’s age they said that if a boyfriend of theirs went on the show, for whatever bs reason the man would give, the relationship would be over and they would not go blasting the man afterward. For they do not think it is their job, as a someone who dated him (not engaged to him) to go out and share their relationship for it also opens the woman up to haters. That is not worth it. Yes, perhaps there are texts that state “I love you” but what does that really mean other than they cared about each other and were dating. Dating is all about having fun while getting to know another person; one or the other could end it at any time for any reason. How dishonest were the men? We do not know for sure; texts do not mean there were conversations about a serious future. Many make false promises just to appease the other person and get off with little drama. Does that mean every man (or woman) who does this is a loser? No. This is escalated because of the public manner of it all but why come forward? My daughters do not get these women going public. What did these women gain from it? Nothing. They did achieve the goal of dogging the man. But again, what did the woman gain? This is from two strong women who are a lot like Hannah in some ways. As for Luke, he is a poor example of what being a Christian means. He preaches to others and judges them, and is totally unaware of it. He thinks he is right even if someone tells him he is not. Narracists are like that. Hannah has the right to do whatever she wants with whoever she wants. But as a part of a couple who might have become engaged, he has the right to question her as to her beliefs. She had the right not to answer. Last night showed that they were never right for each other. It seems they both were attracted to what they wanted each other to be and not to what each other really was. To us she was not better than Jed or Peter; she slept with them with false promises of more. And they, of course, let her.
July 16, 2019 at 11:05 AM
Luke is a sanctimonious,insecure, jerk. He knows the game. He and Hannah had other conversations about sex and she made it clear it wasn’t his business at that time.
In the real world would I expect someone that is about to agree to marry me, to not be having sex with others, sure. In Bachelor world though, you should have no expectations regarding the leads actions, until the ring is on the finger.
Luke lied, manipulated, judged,and insulted none of which are “Christian” behaviors. He is using his Christianity (and I use that term lightly in regards to him) as a cudgel to beat down others.
Hannah was correct, that he was just focused on sex and that was prideful. There are many other more important facets to a relationship than just the physical.
July 16, 2019 at 11:09 AM
Many of us were very uncomfortable watching last night…and there’s a reason we were.
This is what women put up with in many religious communities until you realize – as she does – it’s all about control. We’ve seen it all season with Luke P – both with Hannah and with the men. He has massive control issues that he cloaks and excuses with religion and therefore lacks any self accountability as he can justify any and all actions with his “religious” beliefs. We are seeing this play out on a national scale as well.
My fear is that as he obviously lacks self control, will he become violent? The clenched fists we saw when dealing with the men….with Hannah? When is that thrown? And against whom?
He is a danger and needs desperate help. But he will not get it because again, he uses religious beliefs to deny any issues on his part and has an entire community both physically surrounding him and online, who not only provide that justification for him as well, but then degrade and disparage anyone who disagrees with him or their beliefs.
July 16, 2019 at 1:07 PM
Totally disagree with a lot of your comment. I was so happy that Peter’s ex came forward. I’m girl power all the way. These men don’t get to go on national television, discuss their relationships and EXPECT us to keep quiet. Peter is in contention to be the next bachelor. Don’t those women have a right to know all sides of the man they are going to put their lives on hold to chase after into a possible marriage? Don’t you want women to respect themselves enough to stand up and say “don’t let this man treat you the way he treated me”. We women have to look out for each other. We need to SUPPORT this women coming forward and encourage others. Men will always run the world until we change our thoughts and behaviors towards each other.
July 16, 2019 at 1:24 PM
I’m not saying that breaking up with someone to go on a TV show is an admirable thing to do, but I also don’t see the point in coming forward as a scorned girlfriend. Is it really to “warn” other women about these guys? Who cares? There will be plenty of women, knowing the character of these guys, who will still want to date them. It’s one incident in their lives. Would you want to be painted as the “bad guy” from one incident in your life? So, you dumped a guy via text or told him you loved him or fell for his best friend or dated two guys at once because you weren’t ready to get married and wanted to play the field. Would you want one of your scorned guys to go public and warn off other guys? Maybe you changed. Maybe it was that particular instance. Maybe it was the circumstances. Maybe it was that one guy who read too much into your affections. Stuff happens. People are human. I just don’t think it’s a good look for these women to “kiss and tell” no matter how jerky the guys are. To me it reeks of vengeance – you did me wrong so now I’m going to ruin your chances to be The Bachelor. I couldn’t care less about Jed or Peter; they’re basically TV characters to me. I don’t know them any more than anyone else watching them on TV. I don’t know their GFs either, but it’s just a bad look for them. These gals dated these guys 4 and 5 months, respectively. Shrug.
July 16, 2019 at 2:08 PM
I thought it would have been Jed in the windmill–twice(!), not Peter, but there you go! I do not understand how Peter has the time to do this show and potentially be the Bachelor if he is chosen. Has he been terminated from his job because I can’t imagine Delta Airlines being OK with him taking huge amounts of time off to do these shows. It’s not like he was taking a leave of absence to care for an ill family member or something. What is Peter’s end game? You don’t spend many years training to become a commercial airline pilot just to throw it all away a year later to become a Bachelor/Bachelorette ho. Or do you? It boggles the mind. As for Peter’s and Jed’s ex-girlfriends, meh. They were only dating them for a few months. Hardly very serious relationships. I think Mike should be the next bachelor. If they are ever going to have a Black man as the lead, they should choose him. Right now it’s just White fraternity bro types. They need to shake it up and show some diversity on the Bachelor front. Tyler will bring in the viewers because of his looks, but he is not bright, not articulate and not interesting.
July 16, 2019 at 2:17 PM
I agree @kabuki. Yes Tyler is nice to look at, but he’s a bit of a caveman. I’m sure he’s into Hannah, but c’mon, the dude knows how to play his cards and say all the right “gentlemanly” things in case he might be chosen as Bachelor. I would LOVE to see Mike as Bachelor but ultimately I think Tyler is going to get it. Hopefully if they choose Tyler, they’ll hook him up with a wardrobe that goes beyond tiny suit jackets and those awful suit pants/leggings/high waters that he clearly loves.
July 16, 2019 at 3:32 PM
all these people somehow preaching to not judge hannah about having sex with multiple guys….uhhhhh yet they all judge luke on his actions and jed for having had a gf before coming on the show. how is that any different??? so luke cant judge her for her actions for what he believes is morally wrong but she can judge him and bash him for the actions she considers morally wrong. same for jed. its not acceptable for him to have had a relationship prior to coming on the show and sleeping around on her but for Hannah to date multiple guys, make out with them and have sex with them its ok a week before he proposes to her???
also she certainly didnt accept jed for all his misgivings either she dumped him. so we should all just accept Hannah for what she does but where is the same tolerance and openness for others.
Jed didnt tell Hannah he had been seeing someone before coming on the show. My guess is she didnt tell him she screwed in the windmill twice with his pilot buddy before he proposed to her yet all we are focusing on is he wasnt truthful. She wasnt either. Yet she certainly didnt give him the benefit of the doubt she so seems to want from all these guys.
All season she has given her requirements and expectations about what SHE wants. Thats nice and all but those guys are also allowed to voice what it is they want or their deal breakers before proposing to her.
July 16, 2019 at 3:42 PM
Luke could not have come across worse last night if he tried. As others have said, this show is definitely NOT for someone like him. And he should have realized that long before the fantasy suite nights came up.
That being said, I wouldn’t want to be getting engaged to someone I knew had been intimate with one or more people just a few days before. It’s no wonder so few of these couples last in the long run. Who does that in real life? This show is so far from reality, especially in the use of the word “relationship”. That’s not at all how healthy relationships and dating actually should work.
I do think it would be a mistake for Tyler to reconcile with her. She didn’t have a change of heart, she broke off with Jed once she found out about the girlfriend. Hannah kept making very poor choices throughout the season, and isn’t at all ready for an engagement.
Hopefully Mike will be the next bachelor. He seems very kind and down to earth. He would be my choice.
July 16, 2019 at 5:06 PM
Haha @adelina. You called it. Tyler *is* a caveman–in a too-tight salmon jacket that he wears everywhere. What’s up with that dodgy fashion choice? That thing needs to be burned!
July 16, 2019 at 5:37 PM
lets be real. she got offended because he unknowingly called her out. the truth is she hasnt been presenting herself in the best light with these guys all season. pretty floozy if you ask me and you know what if you are going to turn every single episode into a soft core skinemax movie going from one guy to another, people WILL judge you that is inevitable. I am tired of this metoo thing where now women can do whatever they want with no repercussion and we must support and embrace it all and not ever call them out on anything. Weird because when it comes to guys acting like douches they are super quick to call them out and unleash their wrath on them. I dont see much tolerance. People have no problem judging Jed as a fckboy for sleeping on his ex and neither did she, she even called off her engagement to him because of it. But these guys and the audience should be ok with her doing it because shes on a tv show. Give me a break.
You know what any respectable guy who is serious about you will have issues with you sleeping with other guys in the same time frame. I would serious question a guy who has no problems whatsoever especially when he has to decide whether he wants to propose to you in a week.
So Luke was right. I dont think on his part it was done intentionally. I think he had a different image of her but he wanted to point to the hypocrisy and in doing so inadvertently called her out by first saying how people like to say they are about their faith and then hypocritically in the next breath cant wait to get to the overnight dates to get down ..which was exactly what she did and with the extreme case scenario of sleeping with all of them…which she most likely did well at least 2 of them we know for sure. he wanted to let her know where he stood and if she expected to continue with him and expect a proposal that this was a requirement and a deal breaker.
The problem is he was too confident and was sure he was ending up with her and didnt think she would do this with the other guys and after talking to her about his morals he thought they were on the first page and was shocked.
I agree with steve. He never should have gone on this show. Maybe he really wanted to meet her and this was his way.I still think he was the most serious of those guys there. Too intense, yes. Playing devils advocate it couldnt have been easy for him either to be in a house for 6 weeks 24hrs a day with guys he didnt get along with just to keep this thing going with her.
I think he was trying to justify his feelings for her by saying she had a slip up when he saw he had offended her and he said he would try and willing to try and work it out. I dont see it as mean. To me it meant they were going to have to work through their differences. The let me pray with you comment was too much though. But again it just shows how completely incompatible they were and this would never had worked out. That letter from the one christian person. This works when you both share the same views but it doesnt work in this circumstance when ones views is inherently more conservative than the other person on such issues.
But to say it wasnt a good thing when he stood his ground regarding his opinion of her watching the show back I say bravo. He stuck to his guns. He holds women to a certain standard he set for himself. Good for him. Why cant he say exactly what he thinks of her. I mean she certainly didnt hold back on him from what it sounds like at the MTA. Why is it acceptable for her to bash him on TV but stating his opinion of her is somehow wrong.
I am tired of this double standard. These 2 didnt see eye to eye, it never would have worked out. Maybe had she spent less time grinding and more time getting to know them and asking questions to see if they were compatible it would have been more successful
July 16, 2019 at 6:46 PM
katieottawa – You’re “tired of this metoo thing where now women can do whatever they want with no repercussion and we must support and embrace it all and not ever call them out on anything”
Please explain how metoo tires you. How you are directly effected by meetoo…please.
You know what’s exhausting. Living with sexual assault for the rest of your life. Living with rape for the rest of your life. Living in a culture where “boys will be boys” and the man who assaulted and / or raped you is not held accountable. And please spare us the false accusations “argument”. 2% of accusations of assaults and rapes are false. But let’s stick to those that are true…shall we because men rape and assault at an alarming rate.
How dare you talk of being tired of women discussing a terrifying, life altering and often life threatening event.
Women should be able to do whatever they want without a man assaulting and / or raping them. Women should be able to wear what they want and not have men rape them. Drink what they want and not have men rape them. Act like they want and not have men rape them. Decide at the last second that they want to stop and not have men rape them. Go out by themselves and not have men rape them. Go to a party and not have men rape them. Flirt and not have men rape them. Tease and not have men rape them. Walk down the street and not have men rape them. And you want to be able to call out women for being raped and assaulted. No men should be called out for assaulting and raping. Shame on you.
July 16, 2019 at 7:07 PM
Chris was a fish out of water but at least he was honest to himself. Jed gave me the creeps. He’s a manipulator, a mental abuser. It’s not surprising that he was trying to play it both ways with the ladies.
July 16, 2019 at 7:08 PM
I meant Luke.
July 16, 2019 at 7:09 PM
I meant Luke was a fish out of water. Sorry bout that.
July 16, 2019 at 10:02 PM
rob22 – can’t wait to hear what you think!
July 17, 2019 at 4:08 AM
I have been rejected by my husband of 4years,it hurts so much been neglect all the time, I confronted my husband and he say it’s not working and needs a divorce.. I felt depressed and needed solution cause I love him so much. I went online for solution or counseling, when I stumbled on a testimonial page. People with similar problem as mine. I was lucky a lady left an email for me to contact, I took a bold step cause I was so depressed and feel like dying.. I contacted this great man, Robinson buckler , who prayed for me and assured me of my husband return to my arms with 48hrs of his prayer, behold after that prayer night, my husband came home pleading for my forgiveness, it’s our 2year today together after the prayer and my husband has never changed towards loving me.. contact him via :_________________________Robinsonbuckler (@) hotmail. com ??????
July 17, 2019 at 7:16 AM
@christytuzas: Find another message thread to spam. Your Robinson Buckler, based on your description of events rather than any research of mine, is is a cold-reading fortune-teller who happened to read your situation right. He just uses prayer rather than reading palms or tea leaves or tarot cards as his gimmick. What I think is most likely is that your story is false and you are simply drumming up business.
Regarding Luke: He was a typical self-serving young man who, because he is good-looking and has charisma, was able to have his way with more women and dig himself a deeper hole of self-centredness than many others are able to at his age. When he got saved, he started on the right path, but with only 3-4 years as a serious Christian under his belt, he still has a long way to go on that path. If he stays committed to following what the Bible teaches, he will eventually become more and more Christ-like and exhibit less of the crappy stuff we saw on this season.
July 17, 2019 at 10:00 AM
This whole series has opened up a can of worms. I can’t think of any other series where morals versus religion (and vice versa), people calling men out on their behaviour, (and the lead) has been the top topic of Bachelor/Bachelorette conversation.
July 17, 2019 at 1:35 PM
Well said. Thank you.
July 17, 2019 at 1:39 PM
Have you checked out Christian Mingle? I think this might be a more appropriate place for you to fish rather than a tv show that’s based on one person dating multiple people at one time.
July 17, 2019 at 8:54 PM
SeaDub what are you going on about?? i never mentioned anything about rape or assault. rape and assault is different than some douchey guy who dates girls and ghosts them to go on the bachelorette. THATs my problem with the metoo thing and people like you who somehow make no difference between the 2. Stick to actual rape and assault cases thats one thing but this thing has now gotten so out of hand its making a joke of the whole thing by now also making women victims of guys who are just not that into them, dumps them or acted douchey. NOT THE SAME THING. I dont like this manbashing sentiment where unless men are on bended knee to a woman doing everything she wants hes the equivalent of a rapist where radical feminists are on a mission to get revenge and and ruin their lives and reputations. Its getting out of hand. Kinda like when steve makes a big deal of peter dating some girl long distance months ago and changing his mind and breaking up with her and making it her appear like shes some kind of victim. And her voice should be heard and she was scared to come forward. Who cares. its a non story. Just like shes allowes to wake up one morning and call it off with him, he can do the same thing and say “you know what, youre great but you aint it.” he doesnt have to justify to you or owe you for 2 months of dating by making sure YOUR feelings are met and that you are in agreement with the decision. Most women who get broken up with resent the guy after and feel blindsided and are angry. Who cares what he told you before, if you went on a trip the week before. Hes allowed to change his mind whether or not you agree with his reason for it. You guys have no issue with Hannah dumping 30 guys in 6 weeks for all sorts of trivial reason and you applaud her for it. Heck she dumped Peter a few days after having sex with him in a windmill twice. How is that any different than some guy who dumps you 2 days after having sex with you. All im doing is pointing out the double standard. When its a woman who does it, its seen as woman power, when its a man, hes a jerk and deserves to have his dick cut off.
July 17, 2019 at 9:43 PM
You wrote, “I’m “tired of this metoo thing where now women can do whatever they want with no repercussion and we must support and embrace it all and not ever call them out on anything.” And then claim ” i never mentioned anything about rape or assault.” You do know the meetoo movement is about sexual harassment and assault…don’t you?
And if you do, no wonder you have spent 3 ranting, almost incomprehensible drivels defending Luke (and attacking women)…you have the same issues he does. Even though his words and actions are on film, and yours are written for everyone to see, uh….no, you didn’t say, “mention” that. No…not at all.
You, like Luke, need some help. Your vitriol is nuts.
July 18, 2019 at 7:21 AM
Steve, I’m proud of you. You got this one exactly right.
July 18, 2019 at 6:52 PM
Okay, so, is there a TAPED ATFR, AND a LIVE ATFR?? You’re confusing. You say that ATFR was already taped, but then you say there is a LIVE two night finale.
July 19, 2019 at 8:02 AM
No, I don’t believe Steve said anything about the AFTER. He’s mentioned the MTA (Men Tell All) taped show, but not the AFTR
July 19, 2019 at 9:42 AM
Agree, that was my take and read on it too.
July 19, 2019 at 2:20 PM
This whole season has been confusing! 🙂
July 22, 2019 at 9:30 PM
He’s mentioned it a couple of times. And the network has said “Live 2 night finale.” But it’s really not. The finale was already taped, this is just a live studio audience watching the taped finale. It’s misleading.