One of Gingras’s biggest complaints after the fact is that Judge Mata’s dad was possibly in attendance at this trial and maybe might have said that, you know, I’m just here to watch the shit show.
Is that important at all? Does it matter at all if he was there and, or if he even said that?
No, I mean, you know, I, I don’t, I don’t think it’s great. I don’t think that’s a positive thing, but I don’t think it has really a lot to do with the case. The facts are the facts, the law is the law. It doesn’t matter what her dad said or why he was there or whatnot.
I mean, it’s not unheard of to have judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys, you know, you could be attorney for juvenile law, civil law. It’s not unheard of to have friends, family, etc. Come watch or come be there. The courts are open. I told Courtney that when she was talking about going with you guys to watch, like the court is an open forum.
Like that’s. Kind of the way the legal system is supposed to work. We can’t do things in secret for the most part. So, her dad wants to go watch and as you know, maybe her dad’s on YouTube. Maybe her dad’s on Twitter. Maybe her dad caught something on the internet was like, I want to go watch. I want to go see what goes on.
You know, should he say that, yeah, I’m just here to watch the shit show? Probably not, but that has, has no bearing on the case. I mean, it has nothing to do with the case. It’s probably just, you know, he could have chosen his words a little differently. I would say that
if we even, if he even said that, that like that was relayed to people.
We don’t even know if he did. The next thing I think that people are asking about is this whole Appeal process. Gingras seems to think that, Oh, we’re just going to win on appeal with this is, this is a slam dunk. He is, he thinks there’s no way they’re going to lose an appeal. Explain exactly what the appeal process is.
What does he have to do? When is it done by? When do you think it’ll be done by? And what. Once an appeal is made, then what is the court system have to do?
Yeah, I mean, I, I, I won’t sit here and tell you or your fans or pretend like I’m some pellet attorney and I know all the ins and outs. I, I don’t do appeals.
I will tell you that right now. I know, you know, the, the cliff notes version. And even from the ruling, you know, he has 10 days to file an appeal unless I’m wrong. That’s very much in line. I want to say the criminal law is 20 days after a trial, but you know, who knows? It’s, it’s a short timeframe.
You don’t have six months. If you wanted to file an appeal, you have to do it quickly. But then, yeah, the, the issues are legal issues. The judge is, you know, she decided the facts based on the testimony. And there is a huge deference to the trial court. It’s not like, he files an appeal and it’s automatically reversed or they just look at it and reverse it.
I mean, they’ll look at it. They’ll look at Mata’s minute entry. I I’m assuming that they can pull whatever records they need if they need additional stuff. But yeah, and then the, I guess the timing they filed the appeal. They’ll I believe I would imagine again. I’m not I’m no appellate attorney.
Clayton’s attorney could file some sort of response anything. Maybe not. I could be wrong about that, but I think they could have some sort of input in. And then, yeah, you know, as far as timing, I think the court of appeals or when he whoever takes a look at it. I mean, it could be a month. It could be a couple of weeks.
It could be 3 months. I told Courtney, in my opinion, based on that minute entry, I would not be surprised if it was just shot down quickly. The other thing, because of how thorough she was, because of how she protected the record, and because I, I don’t know. What they would be appealing, what would, what is their end goal?
What are they trying to do? Paternity? As far as I can tell, wasn’t an issue anymore. She said, I’m not pregnant. It’s done. We’re over with the issue was getting attorney’s fees based off everything. That was presented all the testimony, all the evidence and her procedural background. And with these other men, why wouldn’t he be entitled to attorney’s fees?
Could they give or judge Mata or 75 percent of the required or requested amount? 50 percent 20. Yeah, of course. But I don’t know why Clayton shouldn’t get attorney’s fees. And I’ve said this, you know, obviously I haven’t covered this or, or watch as much as, as you and Dave and Courtney. But I said that from the beginning, I said, you know, this is all BS.
He’s at least entitled to get his money back from having to defend himself and put forward this, you know, this defense, this case saying, Hey, this, this is, this is all wrong. So
I guess the I guess the the other big final thing about this case is the fact that I think a lot of people were hoping during the course of this case that even if the judge did favor inside, you know, in favor of decide in favor of Clayton, which she did, and Attorney’s fees.
We don’t know what that number is. It’s probably going to be definitely six figures, probably 150, 200, maybe even 250. We don’t know. He has to turn in, I guess, all his receipts or, or whatever. But it was, well, what else can happen to Laura? And we all know from Judge Mata’s decision, this has been handed over or endorsed to, I always forget, what is it, the county attorney or the DA?
What is, Attorney’s fees. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, he was wrong. It’s not the D. A. It’s the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office. That’s how we do it here in Arizona. All the counties you know, we have, I don’t know, 11, 9, 12, whatever it is. Everybody has a county attorney’s office who handles a ton of, you know, Mostly felony cases.
We do do some you know, whatever, some small jurisdiction misdemeanor cases. I think a lot of it’s unincorporated land, but anyway, and then a lot of our cities have city courts to deal with that kind of stuff. We do not have a district attorney. It’s the Maricopa County attorney’s office who handles, you know, Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe, Mesa, all the cities, all within Maricopa County.
Yeah, so that was another thing. The Maricopa County Attorney’s office was endorsed on that minute entry. I’ve never seen anything like that either. I mean, that was wild to me again. Not that I don’t know if it ever happens. Maybe it happens every day, and I just don’t see it, but I have seen again a ton of minute entries and for judge model to go out of her way to say, Hey, Maricopa County, you might want to take a peek at this you know, get some detectives involved or get some people asking questions to Scottsdale.
Pd mate. Well, I don’t know where where they’re at. But start talking to some of these you know, alleged victims, these men who, you know, gone through the ringer because of her basically being untruthful they, they could definitely get a case going. Absolutely. It would not be unheard of. It’s just so unheard of to have the judge get involved.
We found out today that they already have an investigator assigned to this, to this, thanks to all of the tweets that they were getting. Is that something that’s common where like a grassroots effort could get them to look into something?
I mean, I, you know, would they admit to that? Is that something?
No, but I think we all know how the media works. The more eyes you have, the more attention you have. You know, Rachel Mitchell, the county attorney. I don’t know. I don’t know who exactly got this on their desk, his or her desk. But yeah, I mean, if you see this, you get judge models. And again, I would say something.
You know, I think Judge Mata is respected. I don’t know a ton about her, but I think I appeared in front of her a few years ago. Judges rotate to do criminal probate, civil, juvenile, family law. I mean, you don’t just sit somewhere forever. I would say Judge Mata has a pretty good reputation. I would say Greg Woodnick has a pretty good reputation.
I think the fact that she endorsed the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office, they’ll at least take a look. Will they spend six months on it? Will they spend a ton of man hours on it? Maybe not. I don’t know. But I would imagine you know, because it was her, because of the minute entry, how well written it was.
I didn’t see a big deal with all the typos, but that’s just me personally. Jinger’s was
like, Oh, look, and she typed her on the wrong in the first paragraphs, like, really, that’s what you’re worried about.
Yeah. I mean, I, I, I didn’t see a huge deal with that, but yeah, you don’t see something like this.
I’ve, I’ve never seen anything like this. It is totally wild to me. I worked at that office for almost three years. So yeah, if. They have a detective assigned or investigator assigned. It’s not a huge shock. Cases to get a lot of media attention here in Maricopa County, obviously are you know, someone’s going to take at least a peek.
I would say that
if they do bring it to court, you know, prosecutors have a very high batting average. So are they looking for cases where they, they clearly know they’ve got a very, very strong case. And would they look at this evidence as like open and shut if they wanted to pursue it?
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, I work there.
I, where I work now, now County Attorney General, I mean, I would say the standard reasonable likelihood of conviction. You have to reasonably, the reasonably believe that you defendant go on May. I mean, there’s been cases that I’ve turned down, there’s been cases that I didn’t go on where it’s too much of a 50 50.
So they would say they feel damn good about their case going to trial, because you have to figure like trial she’s probably probate she’s looking at a jury yet to convict you have to convince 8 people that she’s guilty. So you have to have a pretty damn good idea that you’re going to convict her and you can convince 8 people to say guilty.
I think if you gave me a thousand, I could convince 999. If one of those is her mom, maybe I wouldn’t convince her. But yeah, no one person who’s looked at this case. Honestly, that’s not a paid expert by her or her mother as someone who doesn’t see it for what it is, a con job, you know?
Well, I, I, I think the I think Mata put it best, or maybe the succinctly that she has established a pattern.
I think I read that somewhere. She has developed a pattern.
Like in her conclusion.
If Clayton Eckerd was the only male that she had done this to, or partner, or Love whatever interest, then if it was one then it might be a little tougher, but once you develop a pattern, that’s your modus operandi kind of like, so, I mean, you’re getting an M.
O. You’re like, you’re, you’re developing a pattern. You’re developing habits. You can point to other. People in the same situation that you’ve done this to. So, yeah, I mean, that’s really bad for her. That’s really, really bad.
And when you were talking about jury and her appearing before eight people have to find her, Ike, she was terrible on the stand in the trial that we saw.
No, she was terrible. I want to see her in front of a jury because I think a jury would not believe a word she said. I just don’t understand.
They might eat her up. I mean that. Yeah, I read about that too. I was, I didn’t watch. I’ll be honest. I didn’t watch. I didn’t, you know, I wasn’t, I was actually in court myself.
So I didn’t, I didn’t pay attention to the trial. I heard from Courtney. I saw some cliff notes stuff, but yeah, the jury takes that into account for sure. And if you’re asking for a time out and you don’t want to answer questions and your attorneys allegedly coaching you, I mean, that looks really, really bad because I mean, Okay.
The eight, the eight jurors talk, right? They don’t, they’re not secluded in a room, each of them by themselves. So like you, eight people go into a room and they start talking with each other. Like, okay, let’s vote. What do we think? Blah, blah, blah. They’re going to start talking. Like, did you see this? Did you see that?
Wait, did you see this? Like, I don’t think that she’s like, they’ll start talking. It’s I mean, if she has that appear, you know, again, I, in my personal humble experience, that’s. That’s pretty bad. It’s not looking good going forward.
Well, I mean, I don’t think anything in this case has looked positive for Laura.
The fact that you know, I think even the OOP ruling there, Mata did not take that away, but she only, she, what have I been reading now, Dave? That Cause she has an OOP out against Clayton, but Clayton’s got one against her, but judge modest said it kept it, but she just upheld it. Right. She didn’t, she has no jurisdiction to overturn that.
Right. So Laura made it seem like that it was a win for her, but it was just the judge going, I’m not going to touch that. But dude, I got it. I got to go. The baby’s crying in the other room, so I got, but thank you for having me on everyone to have a YouTube channel. So it looks like a new star.
I’ll be watching you guys from my phone, but you guys are crushing it. So keep it up. Thanks,
Dave. Appreciate it. See
you guys.
Take it easy. So from my encyclopedic knowledge of this case, judge modest said that there is a precedent in a case called Vega that said that a superior court cannot horizontally review an order of protection and it needs to go to the appellate level.
Based on precedent.
Okay.
Yeah.
In a roundabout way, she just said, I can’t touch it. That’s all she really said that I can’t touch. I’m not going to touch it. If she tried to touch it, she probably could have been overruled. Maybe that would have been issued to over to appeal. That really, that could have been a real appeal issue based on case law, et cetera.
Again, I don’t know. I don’t really, I wouldn’t understand the rhyme or reason to appeal in my, again, just. My own two cents, my thoughts, what are you going to appeal? What’s, what’s the ruling that you want other than the money? And if that’s what you want to try and appeal, go for it. I mean, whatever, but.
There are really no huge issues out there.
And isn’t the appeal process strictly based off interpreting the law? Like if, if, if certain laws weren’t followed in this particular decision that Judge Mata came to and that’s why she laid out 19 pages, this isn’t just She can, you know, Gingras can appeal something that was said, isn’t it just an interpretation of the law was done wrong that way,
right?
I mean, they’re going to look, it’s a, I think they’ll look at, you know, something along the language is harmless there. Like if it’s harmless there, they let it go. Cause again, a huge deference is given to the trial court, whether you’re a criminal juvenile, whatever, whatever judge. Courtroom conducted the trial.
They’re given a ton of deference because they were there, they were in it. They witnessed that they watched it. They got to see her demeanor. They got to see the defense attorney maybe, or her attorney, I shouldn’t say defense attorney maybe coaching her on the stand. I mean, they were the ones who witnessed it, who saw it.
So they get a ton of deference, but yeah, they’re looking at legal issues or You know, the, I can’t forget some of the verbiage to like, if it was an error that happened that they would have to do something factual or whatnot, it would have to be I guess the other way would be very harmful for very poor wording.
It would have to be something that would you know, that would be the Pele Laura Owens. Like couldn’t have you know, won her issue any other way, but for, you know, this, you know, terrible ruling terrible facts that were allowed in, et cetera. And I mean, I just, I don’t see it. That’s just a little far fetched, I would say.
Yeah, no, I, it, that seems to be, it seems to be the consensus that they have no chance of winning an appeal, even though they think they have a hundred percent chance, they’re going to win an appeal and this thing is just, you know, done deal.
I told you it’s wild to me. The the chest puffing and everything else and the odds of slam dunk.
And I have all this appellate. You know, record and maybe, maybe Woodnick’s cases don’t go to appeals. I mean, who knows, maybe he’s not an appellate attorney. Not everybody does appeals. I don’t do appeals. It’s all very, very wild again, from where I sit, what I do, I’m just the measly government employee.
But yeah, I, and, and. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a lot to wrap your head around if you just really don’t see it all the time. But Hey, more power to them if they want to appeal and go that route and do it. I told Courtney and I might’ve told you this too. I mean, we have defendants who have been sentenced to prison.
For years and years and years and years who tried to appeal and appeal to the court of appeals, appeal to the Supreme Court of Arizona that try on special action, try, et cetera, et cetera, to get their case heard and they’re in prison. And I mean, and for him, for them to just think they can just appeal and everything is just gonna, you know, turn for them.
I just don’t think that’s a reality. Whether, whatever kind of law you practice I just don’t think that’s, it’s just not realistic. We have death row inmates that are waiting for the Supreme Court to get involved and help them in the appellate process. And, you know, it doesn’t always work out in their favor.
So, for him to just think this is a slam dunk, it, I just, I, I, I don’t. It’s hard for me to understand I’ll put it that way.
Yeah. Well, I know you’ve had a I know you’ve had a busy week Umberto, cause you had a, a four year old Mario brother Disney party. Talk to Courtney about it. It looked like a lot of fun.
It looked like Joaquin had a blast.
He loved it. He loved it.
But man, thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it. This is a, this is a good talk. Thanks for getting
me with it or getting with me earlier this week too about it.
No, no. All good, man. Always a good time. Always a good chat. I’m sorry, Miss Vegas.
I got a shirt to wear anyway. Next year, you’re coming. Next year, you’ll be there. I already heard about the Miami Vice theme, or the ladies theme, or maybe dressing it with something like that. I got a little bit of it, and I’m ready. I was already looking at outfits. We’ll be there. As long as we can be there, we’ll be there.
Yeah. Gabriel will be 13 months old at that point. That’ll be a lot easier than
by then. He’ll be well, actually by then he’ll probably be walking. So he might be a little harder, but at least he’ll be you know, the late night feedings, things like that. I I’m sure we can find my mom’s good about helping us out.
I’m sure she’ll take them for a day or two.
Yeah, no, that’d be great. I look forward to it, man. We’ll be in touch.
Nice. Take it easy. Have a good night. You got it. Thanks, man. Thanks
again to Humberto for coming on last Saturday night on the live stream. Great, great interview. I hope you enjoyed that really knowledgeable and hearing from somebody in the legal system in the state of Arizona adds a little more.
Oomph to the case. As we know this week, we’ve talked a lot about Laura Owens and all the blog posts that she has done. She’s written five blog posts since the June 10th trial. And it’s just a bunch of whining and just going after Clayton, going after Mike Maracini, going after the justice for Clayton people.
And it’s just like, look, Laura, you don’t have to go after any of these people. It doesn’t matter what you think about them and what your opinion of them is. If anything, you need to convince a judge. And you already did a horrible job of that on June 10th. That’s why Judge Mata absolutely laid this smackdown to you.
So, complain all you want on your blog post. It’s only making it worse for yourself. I’m sure another one’s coming today. I’m sure it’ll be about, I don’t know, me or Dave or all the hate that you’re getting and all this stuff. Look, it’s your own doing. That’s the problem. It’s very hard to feel sorry for somebody who’s lied as much as you had.
As you have in this case and over the last nine months, it’s been exposed and when you’re actually called out on things, you never address anything specifically. You know, I’ve been talking for months about Laura. Why did you write emails to Clayton that you did telling him that, you know, how your insides were and how tight you were and all that.
And for him to give you a chance, the guy literally told you one night after hooking up with you, I made a mistake. I don’t see any future between us. Sorry that it happened, but it’s not going to happen again. And you just can’t let that happen. Things go when guys don’t want you, it all of a sudden becomes, you’re a victim.
And these guys are doing all these things to you. Why don’t you ever address that? Why don’t you ever address your 500 emails and texts to Clayton that had, that gave a judge and him an order of protection against you. Why don’t you ever address that? You talk about your order of protection against him.
He’s got one against you. So that basically washes out convenient. You never mentioned he’s got one against you for the crazy 500 texts and emails you sent him. And I know that your argument is going to be, well, I was pregnant. So I needed to get ahold of him because we needed to have a family plan in the state of Arizona.
Bull fucking shit. No, you didn’t. And if you did, and you’ve even, obviously you convinced yourself you were pregnant. So you convinced yourself you were pregnant. That’s why you had to get a call to Clayton. I don’t know, maybe a couple emails, maybe a few, not 500. It just shows how batshit insane you are.
And you don’t even understand your level of craziness. That’s the problem. Yeah. Is that you don’t think you’re doing anything wrong when you do this to men. And as I said in January, and I’ll say it over and over, let the Arizona courts decide your fate. They already handed one big giant negative against you in that ruling on June 18th.
You don’t have much time left because I think this appeal is not going to be looked at and rumors are Arizona prosecutors are looking into the DA office, county’s office, whoever. Looking into charges against you. So keep writing your blogs. It’s only making things worse for yourself anyway. Again, thank you all for listening.
I really appreciate it. Please follow me on Apple podcasts also rate and review, but you got to hit play. It’s the only way it counts as a download. Remember Sunday nights, live YouTube stream. Live stream on YouTube, 8 p. m. Eastern on Sunday nights. So be there or be square. I’ll be promoting that and we’ll talk some Jen.
We’ll maybe get a guest on, on Sunday night. We take your questions, stuff like that. So it’ll be a lot of fun on a Sunday night. Sports Daily is up in an hour from now or stop me. It was posted an hour ago. The daily roundup was posted two hours ago where we talk about Jen on call her daddy, basically taking shots at Maria’s performance on call Her Daddy and the LA Times article that came out yesterday on the bachelor’s.
Lack of diversity in the program. So go check that out. Anyway, for Roberto Preciado, thank you for listening. I’m Reality Steve, and I will talk to you tomorrow.
Send all links and emails to: steve@realitysteve.com. To follow me on Twitter, it’s: www.twitter.com/RealitySteve. Instagram name is RealitySteve, or join my Reality Steve Facebook Fan Page. Talk to you tomorrow.
