And you did an interview, I think last week where I heard you, this, this has made the rounds on Instagram. It was just, I guess this is the clip that I saw. I’m just going through my search on Instagram where you talked about the fact that Before the bachelor started filming, or maybe in the very beginning, you told producers like, or they asked you, do you think you could fall in love with multiple women?
You’re like, absolutely not. That’s not, not going to happen. And then I think you said you were in an elevator in Croatia and you just started laughing out loud to yourself and producers are looking at you like, what do, what are you laughing at? And you’re just like. I’ve fallen in love with more than one woman and that ended up being obviously this, this rose ceremony from hell because you’ve got Gabby, you’ve got Rachel Susie at that point, you know, isn’t at the rose ceremony.
We don’t even really, I can’t remember what was even going on with her. I think that’s because she had, you had told her, you had told Susie, you might have to refresh my memory on this. You had told Susie about Gabby and Rachel and then she’s basically said, I’m, I’m done. I want out.
Yeah, we had the it would have been the overnight.
So it was that night portion of the date we had our one on one and I said, she basically brought up to me, if you’ve been intimate or expressed feelings of love to the other women, I can’t move forward. So then, you know, that unfolded. And then it ended with, you know, me becoming upset. She, I’m like, all right, we’re done.
She gets into the SUV, she drives away. And then the next day I’m like, I have to tell these women. And you know, because she left because she had a problem with it. So I need to now inform, you know, Gabby and Rachel, cause they likely are going to have a problem with it. And I thought that everyone was going to be okay.
Cause I figured like everyone knew that the fancy suites, these things happen. So I made the assumption we were all on the same page, but then when Susie showed me, we weren’t, I’m like, well, then maybe I made an incorrect assumption now. I need to go tell these women. And so that’s where the rose ceremony, how it came about.
And in the moment, again, did you think that this was going to be the thing? Like. Obviously they made it into, they, they labeled it the rose ceremony from hell. It was one of the more awkward rose ceremonies we’ve ever watched in the history of the show in the moment when you’re standing there in, I think that was Croatia, right?
Yeah. Wait, no, wait, why am I blanking on this? This is Iceland, Iceland.
Okay. That’s right. Overnights. We’re in Iceland. This ha this is happening. Did you think again in the moment? It was as bad as it ended up playing out on television.
Oh yeah. I mean, I, I mean, they’re creative for forgiving it that title, but I knew it was bad.
I mean, you could see it on my face. I mean, I was so worn out that entire night. I didn’t sleep the night before I was just, I was exhausted. So you saw it on my face. I mean, it was just it looked like I had aged five, six years because I knew I’m like, there is no way for me to divulge this. Where they’re going to go where they’re not going to be upset.
I mean, I knew they weren’t going to take it and go, Hey, it’s all good. No worries. Like appreciate you letting us know. I knew that it was going to be bad, but I, I, and I, I was the one that, you know, again, I, some people were like, were you prompted to do that? I was like, no, I really like, I thought that was the best thing to do.
You know, I take full accountability for that. Like, why would you do that? I’m like, because. I thought if like, I can’t just move forward and the next day and people, they, and like the, they’ll go, what happened to Susie? Oh, I sent her home. I’m like, that’s not what happens. You know, I need to let these women know because they’re going to, if I don’t tell them now, they’re going to see it four months later, you know?
And also like, why would I move forward with these other two women and then act like nothing happened? Like they’re going to ask questions. What happened? Yeah. So I was like, I need to tell them right now because if I’m, if I’m going to move forward with them, they need to be okay with this, you know, I have this, like, there’s no way around this.
I need to tell them like, and if they, and I, and so that night when I showed up, I’m like, I had a very, very real belief that I was going to, that was going to be the end of the show that night. I really felt like both of them are going to say, I can’t do this and they were going to walk out and I’m like, this is, that’s it.
That’s the end of the show. I think, I think the producers thought that too. They’re like, do you, are you, you sure you want to do this? They were not encouraging me to do it. They’re like, are you certain? I was like, yes, I have to do this. And I think they were also like, yeah, this is probably going to be it.
I mean, I, why would these women stay? So we were all walking into it. Like I it’s not, it’s what else are you, what are you going to do? Like, I don’t want to do this, but like, I owe it to these women to be transparent and honest. So I thought that was the right thing.
And I think the biggest thing, I guess, that the audience had the issue with was not necessarily the intimacy part of the overnight dates, because I think we all know there have been numerous seasons where the lead has been intimate with more than one person.
It was the expressing your love to three different women or Two, whatever it was. And I think that was the thing. So, I mean, I don’t know, looking back on it, what made you, did you feel like that’s something you felt you needed to tell them? Was it something that was ingrained in your head? Like, I think that’s the biggest question everybody has is find the intimacy.
Why did you tell them how bad you, you know, about how you felt about them and that you were in love with them?
Yeah. So, what happened was I was holding back. So all three of these, one at this point. Told me that they were falling in love with me, and they told me, you know, weeks prior to the roast ceremony from hell.
And so now I’m, I’m, I’m like, well, I don’t want to tell, like I can’t fall in love with multiple people. I said that to the producers, so I’m like, I really like these women. Like, do you love ’em? I’m like, I don’t know. I feel like I can’t fall in love with multiple people. It’s, it’s gonna be a train wreck.
Like, and so I was fighting, holding back, holding back, holding back. Well, then I had the, you know, the, the, the three of them, you know, approach me at different times. And said, you know, I’ve, I’ve told you the way I feel you haven’t reciprocated it. So I, I’m starting to close off because I feel like if it were me that you were, that you loved, you would reciprocate, but you haven’t told me anything and it’s been like a week and a half.
So I’m starting to close back off. So I get set, you know, told this by all three of them. Or maybe not all three, but I think we have a two of three and I’m like, well, this is not what I want. Like, I really do have love for all three of them. Like, well, at the time I was like grappling, I’m like, I go back to my room and I’m like, these women are closing off, like I have, I don’t want to tell them all three, I love them.
Cause like, that’s going to be a mess, but like, but I do care about them. I do really like them. Like, do I love them? Like, I guess I do for different reasons. And I’m like, no, I can’t. So I’m like going back and forth. I’m torn. And I’m like, Clayton, you were holding, you’re going to shoot yourself on the foot.
Like if you don’t tell these women how you feel, they’re all leaving, they’re all going to close off and you’re going to end up with nobody. And I, and I finally was like, you’re in an environment where like, it’s a polyamorous polyamorous environment. Everyone knows how this goes. You have the ability to tell them and fall in love with multiple people and it’s okay.
Cause this isn’t the real world. So that’s when it hit me in the elevator and I started laughing. I’m like, I’m so screwed. And they’re like, why? I was like, cause I just realized I fall in love. Like I, it’s not that I realized at that point that I fell in love with three women, it’s that I finally was willing to allow myself to fall in love with them.
And I was like, I need to tell them now cause I don’t want them to close off. And so I was like excited. And I’m like, I got to go tell them all, you know, cause I do love them for, for different things, each of them for different things. So yeah, that was what it came down to was, I mean, I, I, it was either you tell them how you feel or you, or you keep fighting and resisting and not telling them and then they may end up all closing off and you’re going to end up alone.
Like that was my fear.
So I think one of the things that was interesting about it was, you know, you tell Susie, Susie says, if you were intimate, you know, I can’t move forward with you. Fine. She gets in a SUV. The rose ceremony from hell happens. Both of Rachel and Gabby, you know, go off on you. But then Susie is still there and around.
And you’re like, first off, did you know she was still there? Or I can’t remember how that went about once Gabby and Rachel were just like, we’re done. And then, but yet, The last we saw of you and Susie was her getting into a car. Did you assume that she had left? How did that, how did that all come about?
And I guess going forward, we all know now, we know the story that once you left Iceland, you, you know, on the TV show, you were single, but days after that, you and Susie got in touch and ended up, you know, working things out. So my question was, I guess, how did Susie end up getting over it? Cause her whole point was, Hey, if you were into it with them, I can’t be with you.
But then. When you left Iceland, she could, was that a sticking point in the relationship that was always going to come up? Did it play a role? Or once you guys had the talk after Iceland and you guys, cameras were off, you can actually talk like real people. Did it become less of an issue?
I think that night was just so emotionally charged that there was nothing, you know, we got to a place where there was nothing constructive that was going to come out of it.
And again, like people are like. Just have to realize that was a four and a half hour conversation. You know, everyone made it, it looked like on camera that it was 20 minutes. So it was four and a half hours and it was really actually a really positive conversation for the first, you know, three and a half.
And then, you know, as it just re as we began to realize that there was no moving, progressing forward, I started getting my head and started to question, you know, her. And I was like, I don’t know if, you know, I really understand, like, this feels like a setup. So I started a question and that just went downhill.
And there’s just certain things I can’t talk about. So, you know, so I just, unfortunately, as much as, you know, I, well, I can’t talk about certain things. So. That then I think when everything settled, it was like, I guess in her mind, you know, she was like, I am willing to at least have a conversation with him.
And I, you know, it was like, Hey, I just want to apologize. So I know that she’s not going to take me back. I mean, at the end, when, when it was, when she came back for the final rose, you know, there was this, this big, you know, dramatic, is she going to show up or not? I knew she was going to show up. I knew she was going to show up.
You know, the producers like, do you think she’s going to show up? I was like, yeah, not even questioning that she will. And they said, well, how I said, cause that’s her inner character. I said, but she’s not going to accept the rose. I said, I know that there, so I knew in my heart, I’m like, she’s going to show up and she’s going to let me down, but she’s going to show up cause it’s in her character to do so, but she’s not walking out of here with me.
So that’s why, I mean, I knew it was coming. And when she showed up and then she was like, I can’t leave with you. I’m like, I know, I know. So I was already, that’s why I was just like, I knew this. And so we. She goes on our way and, and I just was like, that’s it. Like I stood out in the rain. It was, it’s kind of like a very movie esque ending.
It was weird. It was like, I’m standing in the rain downpouring, you know, the, the freaking producers are having, you know, they’ve just, Oh, get the angles. This is incredible. You know, it’s like the fire pit behind me that it’s downpouring. It’s like the perfect ending. And I’m just standing there and I couldn’t believe it.
I’m like, is my life even real? Like, how did this happen? Like I legitimately was found a way to become the first bachelor that ended up being alone that nobody wanted to be with. And I was, again, at the time I was a people pleaser. I didn’t feel good enough. I said that on Michelle season. So I’m sitting there and I’m like, just, there you go.
You’re not good enough. You had 30 women and not a single one of them. You ended up with none of them at the end. So I’m just standing there. I’m like, I cannot believe that this is my reality. Like this is proof that you’re not good enough. So it was a tough moment. Yeah, it was just a lot. It was not what I anticipated, not what my family anticipated.
And yeah, I mean the whole, the whole last week was a whirlwind. I was. Just honestly, just moment to moment. I couldn’t even grasp what was happening.
And then after it ended, we know that you guys spoke after Iceland. I can’t remember who said it, who reached out to who did you reach out to her to be like, Hey, just want to apologize for everything.
And then it got into deeper conversations. And like I said, you guys were able to talk off camera and actually talk like normal people, or did she reach out to you? Which one was it?
Yeah, I mean, I, I believe everything happens for a reason. And I think there’s just some things I can’t explain in life. But I happened to get my phone back.
And so I was on the plane or, and I landed and I landed St. Louis and I like go on social media cause I hadn’t been on social media in months and so I’m like, I go on my DMS and it’s just like thousands of messages. And I just, honestly, I mean, again, I thought it was absolutely just wild, but I’m scrolling through and I’m like, at this point, I’m just scrolling.
I’m like, how many freaking messages?
And
all of a sudden I see this red blur and red was my favorite color. So I see this red blur and I stop. I don’t just, cause I’m like scrolling. I’m like, Oh, red, my eyes like go to red. And it says Susie Evans. And I’m like, nah, this has gotta be like a fake burner account or something.
So I click on the phone, the, you know, message. And it’s like, Hey, like, can we talk? Like I have a lot that I need to talk to you about. So I click on the page and it’s, I think she had, she left it public. And I’m probably, cause she was like, he’s probably going to question if this is real. So I clicked through her photos.
I’m like, Holy, this is actually her. So then I messaged her. I’m like, let’s talk like when I land or like when I get home. And so we did. So we FaceTime that night and had a three hour conversation. And yeah, that was just like, okay. Like, so at the end of the conversation, I said, Hey, I’m like, can I, can I call you again?
You know, cause I didn’t know like what that was. I was like, is, are we just three hours and we’re done talking? And I was like, can I, can I call you again? She said, yeah, I would like that. So we just like talk the next day and then kept talking. And then it was like, Hey, can we maybe just try to give us a chance?
And so we did. And you know, that’s kind of where it kicked back up.
Yeah. So, I mean, it was obviously no season had really ever ended like that, but it was while the show, I know that this is where Susie played a big role in your life because while the show was airing. You know, you getting kicked in the nuts by, you know, social media and the public and all that.
And I know that’s where your mental health journey wasn’t good when the show was airing and you got to a point now. I know, like you said, Susie helped you out with it, but can you explain to the public exactly what you were going through when this was airing? And. Was it just a, just a loss of, I don’t know, self worth or just like, this is just awful for me.
Nobody likes me. Nobody. Yeah. The bachelor is supposed to be beloved for the most part, you know, and nobody’s liking me in all this. Like where did it get for you with that?
Yeah. You know, it’s, what’s wild is I thought that everyone hated me. Like I legitimately thought that I was the most hated bachelor ever.
Now, granted, when the people bring up the discussion online, I do see it’s like my name somewhere in the mix, but, but I, I remember, I remembered it whenever I first was announced, I thought that every message on the puppy photo of me was like, who is this guy? We don’t like him. He sucks. He’s ugly. He has man boobs as an underbite.
I mean, I heard all these, you stupid, I heard all these things. And I felt like I would like the entire world hated me. What I thought was really fascinating was like, probably six months ago. I, I went back cause I was trying to take screenshots of messages cause I was going to go give a speech. And I was going to talk about, you know, all the negativity that I faced online.
And I’m like, scrolling through the post and I can’t find the negative messages. And I’m like, did they, did ABC come on and scrub my, my, this, this photo? Like, where, where are they? And then it was like, every 10 messages, there was a negative message. And I’m like, No, there’s, they definitely deleted comments or something.
So I keep scrolling and I’m like, this isn’t that bad. And so what I found out was probably every negative comment held the weight of like 30 to 40 positive comments because I was a people pleaser. And so every time I saw a negative comment, I dwelled on that comment. When I saw a positive comment, I just scroll past easy.
He’s a great guy. Okay. Thank you. Scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. When it was a negative comment, I got fixated on it and I would look at it and stare at it for, you know, 10 times the amount that I would for a positive comment. So where I’m going with this is that, yeah, I wasn’t a well liked bachelor, but I wasn’t as hated as what I really thought I was in my own mind.
I thought that I was like, I mean, I couldn’t walk the streets without people throwing, spilling, throwing drinks at me and spitting on me. And I mean, I literally thought that I was the worst, you know, the most hated individual, you know, ever. I mean, that, you know, transcended multiple reality TV shows.
That’s where my mind went. And so I went into a dark space. And there was a photo that I released where It was it was the day before the, the, after the final rose, it was like episode two was when I was revealed in person, but episode one, I wasn’t present while I was watching it live with everybody else in the safe house in LA with Susie.
And there was a point where, I mean, I just, everyone was. You know, they’re ripping into me. I was reading the comments on Twitter. I mean, there was like, they had the panel of people on there. Like, he was not smart for doing this. Like, he doesn’t really, he’s just not, he’s not an intelligent person. And I just got overwhelmed and I got up and I went and walked over to the window and I stood there for like, 30 minutes.
And I just couldn’t watch the episode anymore. I just stood out there and I looked out the window and I’m like, why me? Like, why, why, why? Like, what was the point of even going through this? Like, why did I have to be chosen? Like, this was the worst thing that ever happened to me, you know, and wouldn’t this be easier if like, I just ended it all, like, I don’t even want to like, go live another day.
Like, this is just too much. Like, I. I, I just, I just wanted people to like me. Like, I just wanted it to be beloved for once in my life. I’ve always felt like I’ve been in the shadows. I’ve always felt like I’ve been trying to prove to people I’m good enough. And even though I was, I became an NFL athlete briefly, even though I ended up becoming the bachelor, like all these things that should have amounted to something, I ended up becoming, finding a way to be hated.
And so I just felt like, I’m like, there’s nothing you can do in this lifetime, Clayton, to be loved. That’s how I felt because I was placing so much importance on external validation. I was placing so much importance upon accolades and accomplishments. And so I thought, what more can you do, man? You became the bachelor and you still are hated.
Like every bachelor is supposed to be beloved, but not you. You found a way to be the one that was hated. So it just, it just destroyed me. And I know self worth. And so imagine being, you know, in a relationship with somebody that has no confidence in no self love. How do you expect them to give any type of love to, to, to, to your partner when they can’t even love themselves?
You know, so I, I, for that matter, that was something that I could not provide to Susie. She, she poured in everything that she could at points and I couldn’t give her anything back. And, and, and, and don’t forget that, like. Susie also was not really liked by a certain audience because it became like Camp Susie versus Camp Clayton, like the way the ending was, was like, who was in the wrong?
And some people took my side and other people took her side. And so she was getting torn to shreds in her DMs too. I mean, like, I saw that at one point she was getting more worse messages than I was. People were telling her, like, she’s a, she’s, you know, to take her life. Like, she was getting all the same messages that I was getting.
They were like, you know, what show did you think you went on? Like, girl, get a, get a grip, like, get a, like you, like, are you stupid? Like, I mean, she was getting blasted too. I saw the messages. And yet she was pouring everything into me. And I couldn’t give her anything back. Cause I’m like, I’m drained. I have nothing.
Like, I don’t even love myself. And I see you getting these messages, but I’m still getting them too. Like. So it just was a really, really tough relationship. I mean, I think there was love there on both fronts. I know there was love there on both fronts, but like we were just worn down. I mean, wiped out. I mean, we, both of us, we were, we were sleeping until like, and laying in bed until nine, 10 o’clock because we didn’t want to get up and start going out and having to live our life because we had no energy.
It was like, we, every day we woke up, we felt drained because it was like, once we go on social media, once we start like living our life. And we open up our phones, it’s just going to be a wave of negativity. And that’s what it was. And so it just, it was, it was really hard.
Did you guys ever do I know, obviously, I don’t know what, at what point your mental health journey started with seeing a therapist right.
Did you guys ever do couples therapy or was it just, you did it separately?
Oh, yeah, we, I was doing individual therapy and then we were doing couples therapy. They
did do couples
and we were, we were making progress, but the problem was, it’s like, it’s just like we would make progress on in the couple’s therapy.
But then we would go online and it was just like thousands of comments, DMS nonstop. I mean, bachelor nation is a very rabid audience, you know, like they’ll either be really against you or really for you, but they’re extreme 1 way or the other. And you know, we would go into these couple of therapy sessions and we would kind of start to understand each other’s point of views.
But then we go on social media and we’d have people in our DM saying, like, why are you still with her? Or why are you with him? Like, we told, like, he was 100 percent in the wrong or she was 100 percent in the wrong. And so everything that we were building and fixing and therapy just got kept getting ripped to shreds.
The second we went back online because people were just nonstop commenting. Like, we couldn’t get away from it. We could, we should, we could have shut off social media. I mean, again, listen, like,
Yeah, we
could have shut off social media, but I’m just going to be honest with you. Like I’ve never made easier money in my life.
Like doing the whole influencer thing. I mean, you, you go somewhere, you get paid 10, 000 and you travel for free. Like, and I wasn’t even like a big time. Like there’s previous people that I heard were making 40, 000 a post.
Yeah.
Where are you ever going to make 40, 000 on one post and then travel for free on top of that?
I mean, we weren’t paying for trips anywhere. And so. It’s like a really hard thing to just say, well, get off social media. I would be a bad business person. Like I also, why would you not take advantage of that? If like, Hey, come to come to New York and we’re going to pay you 15, 000. And on top of a free travel trip, we’re going to pay for your flights.
We’re going to pay for your lodging, pay for the events you go to. I mean, it was like fantasy land. Yeah. I I’ve never made easier money in my life. And so it was so hard to like, you’re like, well, we would be fools to not Continue to engage on social media, because as long as we engage on social media, the opportunities keep coming.
But if you, if you cut it off, then go back to your, your regular job. And I’m just saying, like, again, like, for putting in, you know, like, social media is tough in its own ways and to have to create and have to face. You know, all this criticism, you’re subjecting yourself to a lot, but I mean, gosh, I’ve never made easier money in my life.
It was so it’s like, I couldn’t justify it. I was like, I need to get off social media, but I’m like, but Clayton, you’re making more money than you’ve ever made in your life, man. Like it’s, it’s the easiest thing you’ve ever done. Like you’d be stupid. Like you’re, you could make money to set you up for a lifetime.
So it was like this hard dynamic. I
think, you know, a lot of people, like you said, go through that. And it is this weird thing because there are negativity out there. Nobody is universally liked. We know that no matter, even if you take, you know, the most popular people in bachelor nation, they still have people that are just like, yeah, I don’t like them.
And we’ll comment about anything about them. So once the relationship ended with Susie, did you stay in therapy? You’re still in therapy today.
No I didn’t stay in therapy because I am just an open book and I feel like I get therapy sessions from people every day in my daily life. You know, I, I, I found out that therapy is, is, is, is guided, guided mindfulness is the way that I, I, I thought I was going to go into therapy.
And I, what I realized is what I thought therapy was going to be was like coaching. So, you know, having a life coach I expected them to say, okay, tell me all your things. And then after I hear you out, I’m going to give you, you know, bits of advice and here, here’s where you should go. But then I found, I told my therapist one day, I said, when are you going to tell me what to do?
Like, I’ve been talking, you know, for the last three sessions, when are you going to like, actually like give me some advice? She’s like, I’m not, I said, what do you mean? And why am I, why am I here? She’s like, I’m going to keep asking you questions until you uncover the solutions yourself. Like, well, I wouldn’t, how am I going to like, I don’t even think I know what I’m going to like, going to uncover.
She’s like, you will, like, I just have to make, you know, my job is to ask the right questions and eventually it’ll click. And she was right one day, just like clicked. And I’m like, oh my gosh, like the only way that I’m going to make changes is when I finally decide to make the changes. But I have to get to that place myself.
I just need someone to help get me there. And so that’s what therapy did. Well, then when I got out of therapy, I just kept having these conversations and I kept realizing, I’m like, this feels just like therapy. I’d sit down with somebody. And they’d be like, well, like, why do you think you did that? And I was so fascinated by mindfulness and, and, and, and just, you know.
Self improvement and self actualization that I was just initiating these conversations. I still do and I have these conversations on a daily basis. So I really feel like I’m still in therapy because I have people asking me these questions and I ask them back and I learn more. And so I feel that I’m very at ease and I feel that I’m growing so much because I’m now just having these conversations that I was having behind closed doors in therapy.
I’m now having them just on a daily basis.
So when you, I can’t remember how long after the breakup had happened and when the whole, obviously we know when the Laura thing started, but what made you, I mean, I know one of the biggest things on your social media is the fact that you just decided to. I want to take up hip hop dancing.
And it was this, this long journey where you basically said to yourself, like, this is something I’ve always wanted to do. And maybe you were scared to do it because you were afraid of being judged by the public. But then you just said, at one point and just said, I’m going to do this. And I’m going to put it, not only am I going to take hip hop dancing glasses, I’m going to show people how I’m progressing, how I’m doing and whatnot.
What made you. Get into that. And was that a moment of like, boom, it’s working for me. I don’t need external validation here.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I, again, because of my whole journey, when I got to that lowest of lows where I’m like, nobody likes you for what you’ve built. You know, cause I built a facade. I mean, I, I, the, the person that I built up was like, maybe if I have bigger muscles, maybe if I’m the superstar athlete, maybe if I, I, I, I look, you know, better, I dress better.
I, maybe if I create this, this human being that is impressive, I’ll finally be accepted. Well, it wasn’t who I really wanted to be. And so it was kind of, yeah, it was a facade. And so whenever I got to this low point where I’m like, you built this person up and people still hate you. So, Now that you’re basically down kicked into the corner, you have two options.
Either build back up the person that you were again, try again, or build the real version of you this time around. Because like, to me, I was like, Hey, you’re already hated by everybody. At least it feels that way. So how about you build back the real version of you this time and see if people accept that version of you.
And so I said, forget it. Like, I’m not living my life for anybody else anymore. I’m going to start just doing me. And so I started to make these changes and I’m like, you know, I have this creative being in me. Like I’m a, I’m a creator. I am, but I. You know, as an executor, I’m like, there’s creators and executors.
There’s people that need creators to, to give them tasks and then they go execute them. And then there’s people that are just like, I mean, yeah, like they’re like, yeah, you have those two kinds of people. I put myself in the execution category where I’m like, you give me something and I’ll go do it for you.
But then I realized I’m like, there’s this creative thirst in me where I’m like, I actually like have this juices that I want to let out. Like, I want to, I want to do these things, but I’m not doing them because I’m fearful of judgment. And so. There’s plenty of times in my life where I tried to dance in the clubs and I, I’ll never forget, there was a time where I was out with like, I think it was, I was out with Brandon and Rodney and I was in LA and I was dancing in this club, and I saw this girl and she looked at me and she was like, gave me this look.
And I just stopped dancing and I was like, and, and I, I’m like, I can’t, like, I wanna dance, but like, I, I, I suck. And so I’m like, I can’t dance. Like, I’m so embarrassed. And this girl was looking at me like, Oh, stop, you know? And so I, those moments would burn into my head. Well, then when I got, I finally just had this effort moment where I’m like, just, I don’t care how stupid I look.
Like I want to dance, you know, I, I’ve always wanted to, so I’m going to go do it. So I went into the first class and I was super nervous. But once I got through the first class, I’m like, that wasn’t actually that bad. Like. Like they, the dancers are a really accepting group of people. Like that was actually really fun.
Like I felt supported. So I, I took the private classes and, and then one day I was like, I was so happy. Cause like, I learned my first dance and I’m like, I want, I’m just so pumped. And so I was like on a cloud nine, I’m like, I’m doing it. I’m doing it. I was like, I’m gonna post it online. And I was so happy to do that little step.
It was like this to freak elite the song. And I was just like, I thought I was the man. I’m like, look, I’m vibing. I’m moving like, and it was such a simple dance move, but I was so happy to like, finally be doing it. And I wanted to show everybody. And I thought I was like super smooth. And so I was proud of it.
I posted out there and everyone’s like, Oh, this is cool. And I’m like. Okay. So I was getting a little external validation for sure by, by posting that, but I’m like, Oh, I’m doing what I love. And like, people are accepting me for it that I kept posting some videos. And some of the videos were like, you know, not great at all.
And I look at them now and I’m like, Oh, why did I post that? Like super stiff. And like some of the dance, some of them are, you know, I get it. Why people like they’re cringy. I’m like, yeah, that wasn’t that good of a video. But in the moment I was so happy about it that I posted it. It didn’t, wasn’t cringy to me.
I was like, no, I’m just like, super excited to like, share this with you guys. But then I started seeing people, like I started getting DMS and people like, you know what you posting this and just being you, like, even though you’re getting hit with criticism, it’s pushing me to want to step out of my comfort zone.
And so I have people saying like, Hey, I just took a hip hop class because of you. And I’m super excited. Like, I’ve went to like 4 sessions now. Thank you so much for like, stepping out of your comfort zone and showing me I can do the same. I have people saying like, Hey, I took a knitting class. I decided I signed up for a pottery class because like, I’m watching you chase your passion and seeing your excitement.
So now I’m doing it. And that just fueled me. And then I was like, you know, at this point it’s bigger than me. Like I’m doing the thing that I love, but now like, it’s helping other people. So like, fine, I’ll just post my dancing journey. Why not? Like, you know, just to give people some hope that like, and show them like, dang, you don’t have to be a pro.
Like, look at me. I posted my last video. I was like, Hey, if my stiff ass can post these videos. Like y’all can go do whatever it is. That’s that’s, that’s uncomfortable. So I kind of saw it as like, look what you’re able to do. You’re impacting people, but you’re also just being you. And then I started attracting like minded individuals.
So now the people I have around me are like people I actually want to be around. And it’s awesome. It’s like, I have an authentic group of people for the first time in my life that like, I actually want to be around.
Well, that I think one of the videos you posted recently was a, Hey, here’s a clip from one of the, the first days I learned how to do this dance to here.
I am a year later. I think it was like, yeah, it was a, it was a year video of doing the, yeah, doing the same dance. And you’re just like, yeah. You do look back at that first one and, you know, and as I watch it, and I think that’s the biggest thing when you first dance, you just, because you’re not a dancer, it looks stiff.
It just looked like, okay, he’s got the moves, but it does. It just looks like he’s just counting in his head. Okay. You got to do this. I got to do this with my foot, got to do this with my arm. And now a year later. You’re doing the same exact move, but it looks a lot more fluid, you know, I’m still stiff.
I mean, yeah, like I’m still stiff again.
Like I, when I, I see what people see, I’m not like, I don’t have this altered sense of, you know, perception. I’m like, I see the stiffness. I mean, I get it, but I am what I am. I’m like, I just, I’m a big guy and I’m, you know, and I’m stiff and I never really stretched, you know? So like I have, I’m just bulky.
And so like, it doesn’t, my body doesn’t flow that way. But the thing was, is I’m like, if you look at the before and after videos. You can see, I posted one recently that shows you know, every month, like I was a video that I, that I took from each month in the last year. You can see I become, I became a different person.
My, my style changed, you know, the clothes I was wearing, I had earrings, my hairstyle changed. Because what happened was, is the old me died on this journey in the last year. And the new me, the authentic me, the creative me has come out and been like, this is the real me. Like I’m doing whatever the hell I want now.
So I watched that video and I was like, this is super cool. Like externally, you can see the change, but internally it’s even greater. And I just was, you know, I thought that was really cool. And I liked that. And I liked the social media actually can be a positive place where you can inspire people. And so now I’m like, I get to post something that I love.
And it just happens to like inspire people. That’s a pretty cool spot to be in.
Yeah. And that’s, that’s great to hear. Like you said, like internally it’s, it’s changed you even more than it has changed externally. So, you know, as we kind of wrap this up, where do, where do you go from here? Do you try and get back into speaking again, doing speaking engagements?
Is that on the docket? Obviously you’re still in real estate. I believe you’re still doing that, right?
Yeah, so what’s next? I mean, what I’m really excited about is I will be filming my first 4 episodes of my men’s mental health podcast here soon. So I wanted to get in back into mental health. And and so I, I think that right now there’s a major stigma with men and being vulnerable.
And so I’m like, okay, like, this is where I can make my difference in this world. I can start having men be vulnerable, open up. And hopefully get other men as they watch these podcasts or listen to them to also do the same because their strength and vulnerability. So, that’s the avenue I’m going back to you right now for mental health.
I mean, I’d also like to go back to speaking around the country. It just hasn’t happened yet. But right now, immediately, the podcast will be my avenue to be able to continue to. Or to get back into like the mental health realm, I’m still going to dance. I mean, I have no, I told my instructor, I was like, I mean, you know, I’m sticking around for at least a few more years.
I was like, I have no reason to stop. Like I’m still progressing. You know, I mean, it’s not, you know, how to pay I’m progressing. So I was like, progress is progress. And then I do I still do real estate and I still do solar sales. And solar sales is relatively new, but I have the things that I do and I do my Airbnb.
I have like a lot, but it’s manageable and I enjoy it and and I have, I have everything I need. So, so yeah, like I’m just happy. I’m like, I got everything I need and and my life is entertaining, exciting. And you know, if I get to do what I love. That’s pretty sweet.
What’s the, what’s the name of the mental health podcast and when is it officially coming out?
And
yeah, so it’ll be, it’s going to be called it is called beyond the cover. So the premise of it is again, like, you know, like everyone sees face value, the front page of a book, but I want to go beyond the cover with people. I want to be able to appeal, you know, flip the pages and, and have people that, you know, men that I’m going to bring on that are, you know, Yeah, it might be perceived as having it all figured out there, you know, high profile individuals in their respective lines of business, but I want them to show like, Hey, here’s adversity.
I went through here’s insecurities I’ve dealt with, you know, I still bleed the same blood as everybody else. So super excited about that beyond the cover just felt like a really great title. And it’ll likely 1st episode. Well, I’ll just say it’ll come out within the next month. I don’t know. We’re going to do our 1st.
Four episodes film here in the next week. And then it’s all new to me. So as far as how quickly my team will turn it around it’ll safely, I can say the next month it’ll be out.
Okay, cool. And obviously we’ll all be looking for that. And you know, one final thing, and I don’t even know if you can say this or maybe even give us a hint you had referenced in a recent interview in regards to alluding to having something in your back pocket, like something up your sleeve that dealing with, I’m assuming this is dealing with you know, the Laura Owens case.
I mean, maybe you can reveal it now, if not fine. Can you give us a, a, a hint to what this is, or
I feel like we, what can you say
about it?
I feel like we, that got really blown up. Oh. Okay. I’ve seen that. I’ve seen that a few times. Yeah, I, I already, so it got really blown up out of proportion where everyone thought that I had some, like, really it, I, I’ll, I’ll put it this way, I’ve already done what, what, what, what, what I said that I was gonna do, that I had up my sleeve. I’ve already done it. And it, and it served, it served its purpose and it actually worked just like I thought, but it wasn’t like, I think everyone thought that I had some like information that I was withholding that I was just going to launch.
I’m not, I won’t, I won’t say it because you know, who’s going to watch and then she’s going to think, you know, she’s going to take it a certain way and think that I just, it’s, I just, it’s, it was kind of an, it’s, it’s anticlimactic. I mean, it served its purpose. What I did. I was withholding doing something and then I finally did it and it like it did.
Grab the, you know, the attention of people and it took, you know, and gain the traction that I needed it to. And I, I wasn’t, I w I was withholding doing it up until that point. I just, I feel like I can’t say, cause it’s going to be, I think it could be taken in a certain way where she’s like, I can’t give her anything that she, at this point, she’s lost.
And if I give her anything to be like, well, he used this in this manner. I’ll just say that I’ve already done it and it was definitely like, there’s, I don’t have some secret. It’s not, it wasn’t as big as what people thought it was. I may be, I guess in that moment, like I thought it was big. And I guess it was, but I got, I’m not really doing a great job right now.
Obviously it’s like, what is it? I just, I really, it’s one of these things where like, I, I decided to say something and reveal something on my own that I hadn’t done prior that I wasn’t willing to say prior, and I finally said it and it, Caught fire and now it’s all out there and there’s no hiding.
I’ll just say that. I, I,
okay. So it’s already internally. It’s already been done. It’s not been done publicly that we know of. It’s not a,
no, it has. Yeah, no, it has. I it’s, it’s not a, listen, I saw that and I was like, all right, Clayton, you probably got a little too. Like, I, I think I, I had to go back to that moment.
I think I said that. I can’t even remember
what podcast you said it on. I
think I honestly said that in a little way, just because I, again, I know that she was going to watch it and I was like, I just want to say this just to like, rile you up, like, I’m just going to say this because I want you to know, like, I have plenty more I can do.
And if you’re going to keep going. Like I’m going to kind of poke a little bit, you know, I think that’s, I think that was more so a message to her directly where I’m like, Oh, I got more in the tank, like, if you want to play this game, let’s go, let’s fight fire with fire. So that was more of a statement towards her.
Well, I mean, it’s been a, it’s been great talking to you finally since, you know, the time we talked months ago over a year ago on the phone. And then obviously I saw you in Arizona, great to finally have you on the podcast, go over everything, just kind of relive. And I think your message and what you have gone through over the last 13 months, I don’t think anybody.
In bachelor nation can say that they have dealt with what you have dealt with either show related or, you know, non show related. There have been bachelors that have dealt with, you know, being on the cover of people magazine. You know, Jason Mesnick took a lot of heat for dumping and Melissa and going with Molly, but now he’s married with a kid with her.
You know, it’s just like it passes and, but yours passed. And then this whole thing with Laura Owens came up. So man you’re a good guy. I really appreciate you for coming on. This has been a long time coming. I’m hope, I hope a lot of people learned a little bit more about Clayton Eckerd, the person today, rather than just Clayton Eckerd, the guy who was the bachelor.
And again, I can’t thank you enough for coming on. I really appreciate it, man. And we’ll, we’ll obviously be in touch.
Yes, sir. Steve, I appreciate you, man, for everything you’ve done as well. I know you put yourself in the line of fire with, with a few other individuals. When you didn’t have to. And so I appreciate it.
And it’s, it’s funny because yeah, I mean, I knew about you. The second I became the bachelor, everyone’s like, oh, reality, Steve, he’s going to try to, you know, pull stuff out of you. I think, I don’t know if I told you this, my mom loves you. Like she was like, yeah, she was like your biggest fan. She’s like, and whenever you first reached out, she’s like reality, Steve, you know, cause like you’ve, you’ve, you’ve played your place yourself up there.
We’re like, if you know, bachelor, you know, reality, Steve. So, it was, it was funny cause she was always excited. And then I think you had reached out to her at one point. And she was like, we already, Steve reached out to me and I was like, mom, don’t say anything. I was like, I’m under contract. Like he’s doing his job, but like, do not.
So I was like, I will get in trouble. Cause I, you know, I had to be careful telling my mom stuff. Cause you know, she wasn’t used to everyone like wanting to talk to her about things. And, but no, I just, I mean, it’s just funny. Cause I mean, yeah, like you said, long time coming, but really grateful, man. You’re a, you’re a good dude.
And I think a lot of people times, I mean, think they, they make their own inferences. They think they know you. They think, you know. It’s like, you know, they, maybe they see you as the guy, the gossip guy, rowdy guy for the Bachelor. But it’s like you and I’ve had face-to-face conversations, phone conversations, and you know, you’re a genuine guy that just wants to, you know, it’s just like, this is what I do for work, but you know, what I do for work isn’t who I, you know, am to my, at my core.
And that’s what I also would agree with on my own. It’s like, I’m like, just ’cause I did do this doesn’t, doesn’t mean you know who I am at my core. So, I, I see that in Indian Man. Really appreciate you for who you are and. And really appreciate this, this podcast. You asked a lot of good questions. I think people will obviously see me and a little bit of a different light.
So I appreciate you giving me that platform to do so.
Yeah, no problem. I think, you know, now that I’m thinking back to it, I think the last time I reached out to your mom was when the pictures of you filming in Missouri for your intro video, when I didn’t know much about you and I didn’t like to hear rumors.
Yeah. I sent a picture of that to her and I said, can you confirm this is your son? Never heard back. And I was like, no,
she read it. She read it. And she goes, she goes, Clayton reality. Steve, he just, he just like, he reached out to me and she was so excited. I was like, what’d he say? She’s like, she’s asking if this is you.
I was like, do not answer that mom.
Obviously I should have known it was you. It was obviously the pictures were very clear of you shooting that thing and looking
for confirmation. Cause you obviously your job is, you know, like you, you can, you get really spoilers and stuff. And so you were doing your due diligence to be like, I got it.
Like before I released this, let me make sure. And I, yeah, it was funny. Cause I mean, again, there’s no harm, no foul. I’m like, he’s doing his job and I’m like, mom, do not answer that.
Yeah, no, that’s funny. And you know what? Remember your season. I did not know the ending to your season for the longest time. I had a lot of spoilers to your season of terms of dates and when stuff happened and who went on what dates, but I didn’t know the whole Susie ending.
I think until the weekend. I think the weekend before the finale aired is when I finally found out that, Oh, you know, there is they don’t leave together and, but I didn’t know what your situation was currently at that time.
Yeah, we kept it under wraps. I mean, we kept it under wraps and it kind of at one point became a game.
It was almost like I was posting stuff on my social media where like I posted the one photo where. I put self timer mode and I was like standing by the foot of the bed with my shirt off and she had to see her leg. But like, or you could look like it could be a leg. And then I did another 1 where like, I was like, I was looking back and I said, looking back at my past and future.
I mean, so we, her and I were like, having fun with it. We’re like, I was dropping little Easter eggs, but we made it a game. We’re like, can we go the distance without this being spoiled? You know, because it’s at that point, it was like, just as fun for us to like. Be secretly dating. So yeah, it was we were trying our hardest to throw everybody off.
I think, I think the picture of you on the bed was the first time I was like, wait, maybe he is with somebody. Cause that’s a weird picture to take of yourself. It’s got to be her in the bed with him.
We were like, we had like, I was like, make sure you get your leg in it a little bit, but like, but you can’t tell it’s a leg, but maybe it’s a leg.
And. Cause again, like we couldn’t go out in public. So we were like stuck in the house all day. So we’re like, Hey, let’s kind of get me the show, like the, you know, the gift that keeps giving, like, let’s keep like throwing little Easter eggs out here and just like, have fun with it. Cause we’re sitting in a house all day.
We’re so we’re like, let’s just kind of be like, you know, maniacal or like, let’s just be a little fun with it and like play, play this game.
The other, the other, now that I think about it, the other thing about Susie was. You know, I’m trying to figure out, did he pick Susie? Is Susie with him right now? She posted a lot from Virginia beach.
Like I was like, she’s never away. She’s always posting where she is, but now looking back on it, maybe she was doing later grams and posting stuff, making us think that she was in Virginia beach when she was actually with you, because she was seemingly always. Like watching from the place that you, she used to work at, I think it’s called Dukes or whatever.
I was like, she’s posting there on Monday nights while the show was on. And I’m like, what she was,
she was capturing days in advance, like a whole week worth of content. And then we would go, we would go meet up for four days and she would just be posting those, you know, day after day. So she was super, super smart with it.
Right. And, and. Yeah, we were like, that was, it became this cycle. Like, can we trick the fans? Like, let’s go ahead and like trick everybody else and play our own little game, you know, like it just, it just became like this fun little thing. And we were dropping clues and some people were picking up on it.
And we were like, sometimes we were too discreet and people weren’t right. Well, I was like, we have to be a little bit more obvious. And it just, it was just something fun. Like, it felt like a little psychological game where we’re just. Playing it and yeah, she was really, I mean, her family, like some of her family didn’t know.
I mean, up until like a few weeks after she kept leaving Virginia, like she kept it from her brother. And there’s one, I know, I know we’re wrapping up here, but there was one funny point that I’ll correct you if she, I think she already shared this on a podcast, but he, like she’s, we were sitting there like in this house together and he calls.
He’s like, what are you doing? And her brother and she’s like, I’m just, you know, hanging out at my house. And he’s like, Oh, cool. Cool. He’s like, I saw a video of Clayton that he made its way out or something. He’s like, it’s kind of a dork. Or he said something along those lines. And like, I’m dying. Like I’m laughing in the background.
And she’s like looking and she’s like, cause he’s saying this and he’s like, he made some comment. Like he wasn’t being an asshole, but he was, he made some comment about how it was like a dork or corny or something like that. I can’t remember what it was. And I’m just sitting there holding like my breath because I’m like, he has no idea that I’m sitting here and he’s on speaker and she’s like, she’s like, I can’t tell him.
And she’s like, oh, yeah, yeah. It was just a funny little scenario. And he finally found out because she was like, I had to withhold it because she was afraid that it was going to leak it. Like she told her family. Cause we were like told you cannot let this get out. Like you have to keep this quiet. So we were, you know, telling a few people, but yeah, it was, it was just a thought, which is
really ironic because, you know, look, obviously I’d like to get the spoiler for every season and whatnot, but what’s really interesting is, is.
It would benefit the final couple if it got out there early and I put it out there and I was able to spoil the final couple like it would only help because it would get people behind you and get people as they’re watching the show to be like, Oh, this is who ends up together. Let’s kind of root for them.
It’s like, it’s not a negative thing. I get why the show doesn’t want you to be like, obviously, you can’t go on our podcast or whatever, but Trust me, I, I wish the final couples understood how much better it would help them if it was out there of who they chose
because you’re right. It gives them more time.
It gives them people like it gives people more time to like, or watch the show and be like, I’m rooting for them. You’re right. Hey, well, like, like you said, perfect storm. I said, you know, it was a perfect storm, man. Unfortunately, my. My ignorance just put me in all the worst possible outcomes where I was like, it’s better if we keep this secret to the last second.
I was playing this game to try to keep it secret. And you know, and I did all the things wrong to, to, to, to be like, so it is, Hey, you know what? It is what it is. It’s all up
there. You’ve turned it around. Obviously things have gotten better. You had to deal with this garbage for the last 13 months, but it seems like we’re past that.
And, you know, obviously we’ll be following your journey. Clayton again, thanks for coming on, man. Really appreciate it.
Thank you, Steve.
You got it. Thank you so much to Clayton Eckerd for coming on. I hope you enjoyed that. Like I said, as I’ve been promoting it, I really thought it was a kind of a Clayton unfiltered, Clayton uncensored, the real Clayton, Clayton tells all, whatever you want to call it.
I thought he was just very open and honest during that whole conversation. And I just wanted you all to hear him in a different light. I’m sure, you know, he hasn’t done many interviews. And when he did do the one long interview with Nick Bial, the court case was still going on. He still had to be very careful about what he said.
I felt like he didn’t really hold anything back here, but the interesting stuff to me was how this has affected his life, his journey and mental health, him wanting to do work in the mental health space. I thought that was all fascinating. The stuff about his season. You know, I don’t think he was making excuses.
I think he took full responsibility, but he wanted to share why he did the things that he did, because I think that’s the question that not only I wanted to know, but you wanted to know, like, why did you tell three women that you love them? Like, why did you think that’d be a good idea? And while you might not like his answer, I liked his honesty, you know, I’m just, I appreciate the fact that he answered the question and didn’t go like, well.
You know, just having fun or something like that. You know, I thought he was really, really good. So I hope you all enjoyed that. And again, if you want to watch him and you want to watch us have this conversation, go to my YouTube channel and episode 400 starting today, all the Thursday podcasts will be on YouTube as well, so you can watch them in video.
Again, thank you so much to Clayton Eckert for coming on for Clayton Eckert. I’m Reality Steve. Thank you all for tuning in and I will talk to you next week.
Send all links and emails to: steve@realitysteve.com. To follow me on Twitter, it’s: www.twitter.com/RealitySteve. Instagram name is RealitySteve, or join my Reality Steve Facebook Fan Page. Talk to you tomorrow.
