Whew. Big emails to get to today. And gonna do something a little bit different. Since a lot of people have opinions on the Luke/Hannah conversation from Monday night, I included all of those right below here on Page 1, but I didn’t comment on any of them. Didn’t really feel the need to since I gave my opinion yesterday. But you can read below on this page all the differing opinions on the Luke/Hannah situation, and no, it’s not all pro-Hannah. Not saying that they’re pro-Luke, there’s just definitely a few anti-Hannah’s in there in terms of how she reacted to what Luke said. So there’s anti-Luke, anti-Hannah, and anti-both of them in there. Some good arguments made both ways for sure, so I wanted everyone’s voice to be heard. Granted, there may have been a few emails that were sent in this week I never got to or aren’t included, but that’s for no other reason that this was a pretty busy week with emails. Even after page 1, we have close to another 60 emails this week with questions, and those are on pages 2-5. But a lot of differing opinions, a lot of good questions this week, and that’s to be expected as we head into the home stretch of one of the more crazy ass seasons we’ve had in a while.
Did want to direct you to Sharleen’s episode 10 recap yesterday where I think she does an excellent job breaking down WHY Luke’s behavior was wrong, rather than just saying it’s wrong, name calling, and what not. Take the time to read it. Sharleen really seems to hit on the crux of the matter here.
ABC officially announced yesterday (even though you’ve known for a couple weeks) we’re having a live, two night finale on July 29th and 30th. So the way this is gonna be done is, next week at the beginning of the episode, we’re only gonna see what happens when Luke shows up at the rose ceremony, and then they’ll go right into the “Men Tell All.” Part 1 of the finale on the 29th, will actually start with the rose ceremony in Greece where Peter got eliminated, then I’m guessing we’ll go to a live segments with Peter and Hannah, and then so on and so forth over two nights. So while Peter did get eliminated at the final three rose ceremony, he technically “made to the finale” because that’s where his elimination will be shown.
Of course the biggest news to come out of yesterday is the fact that Mike Fleiss’ wife (Fleiss is the creator of the “Bachelor,” “Bachelorette,” and “Bachelor in Paradise”) filed a restraining order against him alleging domestic violence. The incident was caught on their home video cameras, but the whole video hasn’t been made public yet. Not sure if it will. But still photos from the video are in the story. Here are the three stories that have been released:
Laura Fleiss’ side: https://theblast.com/c/bachelor-mike-fleiss-attack-wife-abortion-pregnant-restraining-order
Mike Fleiss’ side: https://theblast.com/c/mike-fleiss-bachelor-denies-abuse-allegations
The latest posted this morning: https://theblast.com/c/bachelor-bachelorette-mike-fleiss-criminal-investigation-hawaii-police-assault
Look, you all know I don’t care for the guy. If he hit his pregnant wife, he’s done. He’ll never live that down and should be punished for it. He’ll never be able to escape that. If that video gets released, we’ll see exactly how the fight went down. She says he hit her. He says she caused it. I don’t know, unless she had a gun or a knife on her, I don’t see much justification in striking your pregnant wife, no matter what kinda rage she’s in. But whatever, that’ll play itself out. Most of your questions to me since yesterday have surrounded what does it mean for the show. Honestly, I don’t think much. And here’s why: Fleiss is not involved in the day-to-day operations of the show and hasn’t been for a while. He just created it. He shows up on night one I think to watch, but other than that, dude is a multi millionaire who lives in Hawaii, owns property in Hawaii and California, has a wife 25 years his junior (well, HAD a wife 25 years his junior), and lets others run the show while he sits back and counts his money. So the show can most definitely go on without him since he doesn’t really do anything that affects the bottom line. The story sucks, there’s a second child now involved, and it’s a black eye for him. But for the franchise? It’s certainly not getting taken off the air because of what the creator of the show did in his private life. Maybe they take his name off the credits? I mean, he’s still the creator of the show any way you look at it, so maybe they take it off because they just don’t want his name associated with it. I don’t know. Maybe he’s never allowed on set again? Maybe he can’t tweet about the show anymore? Plenty of time for this to play out, but the short answer is, no, I don’t think the show gets taken off the air because of this.
The rest of today’s page are emails I’ve gotten since Monday night of readers expressing their thoughts on the Hannah/Luke situation. There’s all sorts of opinions on this, I gave mine yesterday, so these are all here without my comments thrown in. Enjoy…
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Hi Steve,
I just read your latest blog and I wanted to put in my two cents (of course). I used to work with church college groups, ministering to ages 18-35. I stopped working with these groups after a couple of years when I realized that their main focus wasn’t to teach the truth of the Bible but to convert non followers by baptism, and preach abstinence. The groups were essentially cults. They were not there to help people with other issues that faced them young adults, and if, after baptism, you engaged in premarital sex you were deemed toxic and quietly removed from the group. I can see this in Luke P’s behavior. The lack of self-awareness, the refusal to apologize, the biblical grandstanding, and the pride that Hannah saw in Luke exudes in these groups like venom deteriorating a limb. This is the way these groups are teaching their followers to behave. I have said many times on twitter that Luke doesn’t know how to have a healthy relationship and I think it is because of his inclusion in these young adult church cults. I have seen it happen over and over to so many people here, and finally had to distance myself form it and the teachings they have. There is a semi famous sibling group band from Oklahoma, their youngest sister is one of the worst offenders of this form of behavior I have met.
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While I’m enjoying Hannah’s spunk, assertiveness, and personality, I don’t always agree with her stand. I also think she is in denial of what they’ve signed up for in this “journey.” The whole premise of this show is to date multiple persons, develop multiple relationships simultaneously, operate and function in a fantasy world, communicate with individuals as if it’s just the two of you; therefore not being completely honest about other relationships/feelings; break up with a person(s) you have strong connection or possibly even love and an hour later want, let alone actually become engaged to another person. If you are in conversations and relations with a few persons where you’re seriously emotionally involved, how can a person want or expect to be engaged to one person after JUST breaking up with someone else/others? In addition, the lead person has led their final 2 or 3 to think they were THE one and they were totally into them. How many times are people left “blindsided?”
If all that is going on with this show, then how does that differ than a contestant (ie Scott & Jed) coming on the show with someone else back home? Yes, on the show, you know and see the other candidates. That does not change the fact there are still other persons and you have no idea what is being said or done with the other contestants. Jed had Haley back home; with Hannah unaware of Haley. Well Jed KNEW Luke was around; but was unaware of the type of connection and there conversations/plans, etc. The same goes for Peter and Tyler. None of them knew the interactions of the others and their connection with Hannah. Is the issue one is done in secret while the other is done if front of your face? The bottom line is, seeing multiple people is still being done. The persons on the show being dumped are just as hurt as Hannah finding out there was a Haley. Many persons on the show (if they really cared about Hannah) thought their relationship with Hannah was strong and could not understand why she ended the relationship. Mike was heartbroken. Luke devastated. The same may have been for Peter and Tyler.
Hannah strongly encouraged each person to be vulnerable, express themselves while she’s giving them every impression she is totally into them. She never did, as far as we know, express to Peter, Mike, or Luke she was “falling in love” with Jed. She didn’t share with them she TOLD Jed she was in love or falling in love. While she’s expressing those feelings with Jed, she is leading Peter, Mike, Luke, & Tyler on and being very physical with Peter and Tyler. How in the world does that differ than Jed & Haley back home.
I do not excuse what Jed did to Haley or his misleading intentions to Hannah; but is it possible for a candidate to have someone home, then come on the show and develop a stronger relationship with the lead? Yes, that can very well happen. I’m NOT saying that’s what happened with Jed, but it can happen. That could have been the case with Scott if she would have let him stay on the show instead of booting him off Day 1. That is no different than the lead starting off with feelings for candidate #1 and later discovering candidate #2 and developing stronger feelings for the #2.
So Jed had Haley and another woman or women. Haley wasn’t aware of the other woman and Hannah wasn’t aware of either of them. Well heck, Hannah had Jed, Tyler, Peter, Luke, and many more. Just because Jed, Tyler, Peter, and Luke knew of one another, Luke had no clue what Hannah was doing, saying and feeling with the other three. He thought they were on the same page…to his surprise he was totally mistaken. Hannah was getting very intimate with all, how does that differ than Jed’s intimacy with Haley just before leaving? If you’re of the same mindset as Hannah…it’s her body and she makes the choice, than that should be allotted to the men as well. If Haley were to be able to visit while the show was taping, go to Jed’s room, and just have a conversation with him; Hannah would have freaked and thrown him out. However Hannah could have sex in a windmill with whomever and none of the other candidates, according to her, should have any say or reaction.
So Hannah is now done with Jed. I have no beef with that and completely understand. But if I were a candidate, was given the final rose, then watched the show after the engagement, I would have the same reaction as Hannah upon seeing her emotional and intimate interactions with the 1st, 2nd, and possibly 3rd runner ups. I would not see how she would have been in any position to accept a proposal because she wasn’t totally committed to me. Maybe we could decide to then begin dating monogamously in the real world, but engagement…No! I’m not even sure of the exclusive dating. I realize there may be some embellishment as to how serious the relationship may be with final 2 or 3, but if the lead is really torn up about who to choose, then they aren’t ready for exclusivity as well. I wouldn’t want to be with an individual while they are thinking about and missing someone else – or even questioning if they are solely into me. I cannot end an intense relationship on Monday and pick up a new relationship on Tuesday. I can’t do it and I wouldn’t want to be the recipient of that scenario either.
Now if the story is true and Hannah had sex with Peter in the windmill in Greece then became engaged to Ted in Greece…Hannah has no leg to say anything to Jed about Haley. She may have an argument if he doesn’t want and never wanted a relationship/marriage while pursuing his music career. Hannah left, realistically, 5-8 guys behind while Jed left 1-2 behind.
This show places a very low standard and value on engagements. They really don’t care. But for me, the act of becoming engaged has significant meaning/value; not something I take lightly. Just the mere fact of going to FOUR families and lying to some or all of your intensions. I would not be asking for a father’s blessing unless I knew his daughter was the one I wanted to marry. No way would I have that conversation with FOUR fathers. And then to say, “if I choose your daughter…” IF? Why are we having this conversation while in an “IF” situation? Get out of my house!!!!
I know I’m all over the place in this long note but Hannah really needs to tone it down in her “judgement” of others and take a long hard look at what she agreed to in doing this show, evaluate her own actions, realize she did exactly what she’s accusing others of doing, and examine what standards, if any, she has for herself.
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Hey Steve,
I wish I were cool and original but unfortunately I’m gonna be basic as ever this week cause I can’t help myself. I hope my questions & take on it offer at least a unique enough perspective for you to post it when you filter through the hundreds of us talking about the Peter scandal.
First I’ll say that while I am human and develop favorites, I do pride myself in being pragmatic enough to look at things impartially.
With Jed, most people had no problem with him before the story broke out. Sure, he was no Tyler or Peter but he was nice and just annoying with his music, no different than James Taylor whom was clearly promoting his music but was nice enough seeming that it evened out (turns out he actually sucks but that’s besides the point). If Jed didn’t have the closet fuckboy thing, I’d assume he’d be generally liked by the public. Many would be turned off by his “wrong reasons” and music promotion, but not like they’d be in a frenzy of rage when she chose him.
That being said, we found out early on enough that his actions + incessant promotion made him the real villain of the season and made every standard thing he said villainous.
However, with him it was pretty clear as day what happened with Haley. While of course there’s always people who won’t believe women solely because a guy seemed nice, you have to be chronically irrational to ignore undeniable proof of what happened.
With Peter, his girlfriend’s story has no more holes than Haley’s (or any) and there is no reason to think she’d be lying. And that’s what I know remind myself as a “rational” person. Just because we feel like we know him now as a good guy doesn’t mean we know shit. So yes, I believe her. 100%. But that doesn’t mean it brings no questions and that I don’t see why some people who aren’t just blind Peter crazies may have some doubts.
With Jed, they were clearly a little more private and didn’t post as many “in love” instagrams and she wasn’t super close with his fam, since they lived in the city in Nashville and hadn’t been together for a super long time. Note: this does not make their relationship or “love” any less real nor what he did any less shitty- cause instagrams and family bonding and PDA definitely don’t determine the validity of a relationship (or else my husband and I would be screwed). However, it did allow him to slide through the cracks of producers knowing about it and his family being like “yo wtf where’s Haley”.
With Peter, while they had also been together less than 6 months- it seems that they were very instagram official. She said he removed all tagged pictures and evidence of their relationship presumably once he was in the casting process, but what the hell kind of vetting are the producers doing by not going to candidate’s social media pages and getting a gist before reaching out? Cause not like Peter applied online and immediately removed her from his life while he still was just 1/50000 applicants. I’d assume he was in serious consideration before dropping her after all the bullshit fantasies he fed her- in which case production should be able to tap their screens a few times and see that he is currently with someone. The only reason this would ever illegitimize her story is because we clearly have too high of standards by assuming production actually cares about finding real life partners outside of what they appear as on tv. Also, Peter lives with his damn parents and they just seemed so sweet and hopeful to him finding love, which you wouldn’t expect from parents who had just seen their son in love and in a happy relationship a few months ago. Even though peter seemed like the ultimate “good guy”, we have been proven many times that these people aren’t completely untalented and can definitely play a damn good role (cough jef cough)- but it is hard to believe that someone’s parents could not just be impartial like Jed’s, but actually seem to fully believe the story they are portraying on tv. He had to have been pretty committed and he has to be pretty cold to say all those things about their future and then be able to cut them out and make up a story that you actually live out to your own family about what happened. Which makes me sad cause he is so charismatic and would have been the best bachelor, was he what we believed him to be. (Tyler is better obvi but I’m kinda needing him and Hannah to get married… okay so I guess I’m not completely sensible.)
Anyway, this is me listing the arguments that will be made in Peter’s favor and talking myself through why they actually make peter worse, not better, than Jed.
What are your thoughts? Do you think that’s actually what happened with peter’s fam or do you think they were just more like Jed and Haley where their love was more private and easy to cover up? Cause it doesn’t seem like something that he should have been able to get away with so flawlessly unless he is totally emotionless and able to lie to everyone around him.
Either way, Jed will be much more villainized due to the added time period in which to grow hatred, as well as the fact that he has one more thing to dislike about him with his awful songs. But really, we should villainize peter more for showing 0 signs of being a fuckboy.. the rarest and most dangerous kind! And I shall try to remember that when I’m busy hating Jed.
I went on way longer than I’m proud to admit and will not be spending any longer by proof reading, so I’m sorry if I copy and pasted something in the middle of a paragraph and whatever other blatant errors I made. Thank you always!
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Steve,
Last night’s episode really left me confused and hurt for both Hannah and Luke. As a 24 year old Christian woman from Alabama, I relate so much to Hannah. My dad was a Southern Baptist minister all my life growing up, so I get it. She’s been awesome this season, and I respect her so much.
To start off, I wasn’t a fan of Luke this season. I felt like he was in it for himself at times, but my opinion sort of changed after last night.
What I struggled to understand is why she wasn’t able to have a peaceful conversation with Luke about something she knew he believed in (abstaining from sex). It was sad to see her get so mad at him for expressing his opinion on morals that he thought she also shared. But at the same time, I don’t think Luke phrased it in the most constructive way, and I can see how she’d feel like he was pointing fingers. All in all, I don’t believe it was a fair conversation for either one of them.
As a Christian, love is the greatest commandment of all (followed by patience, kindness, etc.), and although I don’t agree with HOW Luke said some things and acted as a whole this season, I do think he showed more love and patience than Hannah did during their conversation last night.
While she was right about those without sin may cast the first stone, she did leave out an important part of it – Jesus very clearly said “Go and sin no more.” I’m not judging or shaming her for having sex outside of marriage – I too have had premarital sex – but as a Christian you also have to recognize that you shouldn’t continue to purposefully sin and then come back with “Jesus still loves me.” YES, He does and thank God for His grace, but you shouldn’t abuse it and use it as an excuse to continue sinning.
Maybe she doesn’t agree with that aspect of the Bible, and that’s between her and God. But she knows that’s how Christians are called to live, so coming down on Luke for telling her that’s what he believes wasn’t done in the light she had spoken of.
Regardless, I still love her as the Bachelorette, and I respect Luke as a person. I hope and pray for them to find peace during this time, and hopefully they can find forgiveness in their hearts as Christians are called to do.
Thank you!
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Dear Reality Steve,
I cannot believe how Hannah acted last night with Luke Parker. I was not looking forward to the dressing down he was going to get( I believe he has gotten a bad rap all along), but I at least thought he had done something to partially deserve it. HE DID NOT! Hannah got all bent out of shape as soon as she heard him speak of HIS feelings about the fantasy suites, not that he bashed or shamed her. She immediately got defensive (I could see her brain churning about her previous nights’ actions) and she did not want to be questioned about how she had conducted herself thus far. She made it clear that this was HER journey and the men had just better put up and shut up. How dare Luke question or be uncomfortable with Hannah sleeping with other men days before he wanted to propose to her! I understand that this is how the show goes, but in the real world, it matters. This is why I think Luke ever coming on this show was a huge mistake. Reality, true commitment, and sincerity do not work for this show. When you are contemplating marriage; your values, feelings, and thoughts do matter. I did not expect how Hannah just turned on a dime and had that…clarity…and then instant disdain for Luke because he dare shine the light on this garbage. On the flip side, how wonderful it was that Jed dragged her through the mud about keeping Luke around and how that made him feel. HE questioned her judgement and character directly, but ohhh…that was so WONDERFUL and HONEST and cleared things up between them. If Hannah’s reaction to Luke was not staged last night (the climatic, fiery end to their tumultuous relationship-including a thunderstorm in the background), then I most seriously question Hannah’s maturity and character. This episode stunk to high Heaven (apropos). I am curious to see what condemnation Jed receives and if any will fall on Peter, as well. If none comes for Jed at least, then it tells a lot about Hannah and the men from this season. I just hope Luke gets past all this and lets it go. I know we still have the garbage coming from the MTA episode, but hopefully he will make himself scarce and get on with normal life.
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I know Luke will have few defenders. I will not defend his words but cannot disagree with his decision to leave – though he wasn’t quick about it.
If Luke wants to wait for marriage and Hannah wants to “try out multiple flavors” (her words in an interview) or rather test sexual compatibility before marriage, then their values are incompatible. If Luke had just left it at that, it’s possible he would still be called judgemental, controlling, and sexist, but at least there would be no justification for it.
He did it terribly, but I did not see anything sexist about his action. He is not saying that Hannah should abstain from sex while he sleeps around.
I do believe that production intervened on at least three occasions to make sure Luke was there for this moment. First when Hannah almost sent him home, and they came out of the woods. Second when they allowed four people instead of three last episode. Third, he can’t come back on set (as in the previews) unless they allow it. He is almost their pet now.
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Hi, Steve. I hope you are doing well.
I saw your tweet on what Hannah said about Luke being the embodiment of toxic masculinity on MTA. I could not agree more. Yay, Hannah!
See, I just read your recap, and I also read some Luke defenders on how things went down.
Here are my two cents on it: No. Someone’s beliefs tells them how to live THEIR lives, not someone else’s. I believe that is the core of the critics even christians are giving Luke. If you are in the most conservative side it is completely fine to believe sex is something meant for a wedded couple, but you don’t get to tell people how to live their life, even if you are in a relationship with said person. It is fine for Luke to save himself for marriage if that’s what he believes, it is NOT OKAY to expected that from Hannah, or assume that’s how she views sex, just because she’s a christian, or to faith shame her. If you believe that for yourself and you want to get married with someone that believes that two, you seek out that person, you don’t shame someone for living their life their own way because your expectations were not met, because what you created on your own mind turns out not to be true.
That conversation could have gone completely different if he wasn’t a misogynistic ass hiding behind faith. He could’ve asked her what her view was on pre marital sex, she could’ve shared her view and he could’ve been open and say that wasn’t for him and he would have every right to. The way things actually went down has way more to do with feeling entitled, judgmental and an overall jackass, than with faith.
Even Sean, who everyone knew was saving himself for marriage went and asked Catherine if she would be down for that before he made his choice on his season, because that was he believed in and because he saw her as a person and did not just assume that she would follow his lead.
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Hi Steve,
I enjoy reading your recaps, thoughts and spoilers. Thank you for the work you put in! Your spoilers were the only reason I decided to watch this season. I was not a fan of Hannah on Colton’s season so I had no intention to watch her as the bachelorette. BUT a couple weeks ago when the Jed stuff started to come out…I started to binge watch. In all honesty, Hannah has grown on me and I now like her as a person. She’s real, unfiltered and it’s refreshing! However, this season is so messy and and a huge turn off. IMO, Hannah is not ready for a real adult relationship or a marriage. She needs time to continue working on herself and improve on tuning into her intuition. This is evident by the decisions she’s made which lead to 3 of her final 4 guys being complete jerks. Yes, she didn’t have all the information we have now but instincts! red flags! ….women always have that gut feeling. Luke is horrible. Period. Peter appears sweet but he’s corny, repetitive and rehearsed. Clear as day. I was not fooled by him but by his family. I’m surprised she didn’t see the through the holes of his facade. Jed is also very charming but once again, there were signs that we have been talking about for weeks. I’m curious, do you think this was a “good season”?….it’s full of drama yes, but is it enjoyable TV? Not for me. It’s been nothing but frustrating and disappointing beyond the usual expectations with “reality TV”.
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I really disagree with your view that this conversation shouldn’t have aired. In the last few years, you have consistently shown growth and been in women’s corners – that’s great. However I think you’re underestimating the amount of damage a man like Luke can cause to a woman he’s dating. The manipulation, gaslighting and lies takes a toll on you. I dated a guy very similar to him and watching Luke on TV really took me back to a dark period. If he wanted the conversation to be private, he could have waited until they were in the fantasy suite to discuss. Given that they wouldn’t have had sex, they could have had all night to discuss his and her views on sex. He instigated this conversation and kept changing his perspective based on how Hannah was reacting. He went from I will leave if you have sex with others, to I can forgive a “slip up” to not wanting to leave and as we will see in the next episode coming back for her. This is not a man that has principles. It is his choice not to be with her if she had sex. But then just remove yourself as you initially said you would.
I don’t think Hannah’s response was exaggerated but I think it was long overdue. She wanted so badly to believe he was the one and refused to see all the signs that were in front of her with his manipulation. She missed the same cues with Jed, who was also trying to manipulate Hannah on his date.
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Hey Steve, Longtime Reader and Fan!!
Just wanted to share my initial thoughts on the whole Hannah/Luke thing. I cannot agree with you more that the conversation between Luke and Hannah could have been kept behind closed doors. But what really bothered me was the lack of disrespect from both parties during the conversation. Yes Luke, I understand that you have certain beliefs regarding sex and that is completely fine. However, as a Christian, you shouldn’t judge someone because they interpret things differently. And if you really loved Hannah, you would respect her morals and values and not try to shame her for that. What bothered me about Hannah was she wouldn’t really give Luke the opportunity to explain himself after voicing his initial thoughts. Even if she knew she was going to send him home, she could have acted more mature and allowed him to explain himself instead of just shutting him up. So yeah that conversation was just a huge mess. And I also don’t like how they were arguing on social media; that’s just ugly and unnecessary on both ends.
On another note, props to Calee for having the courage to speak up. That takes so much strength and I admire her for that! Do you think that with her sharing her story, that will affect Peter’s chances of becoming Bachelor?
Thanks for all that you do!
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Hey Steve. I hope I haven’t missed the cutoff. I have read and heard a lot of criticism of her for having sex and “broadcasting” it / bragging about it and here’s my theory: She’s done nothing that other leads haven’t done and good for any of them for sampling the product before buying it. But if this filmed conversation with Luke never happened I think she probably would’ve kept what happened in the fantasy suites to herself. Luke’s comments and then refusing to leave and continued insistence pushed her to the point that she said what she thought she needed to do he would leave. And then she was stuck with what she had admitted to on camera in a moment of emotional frustration. (Haven’t we all done that at some point?) She’s not dumb, she knew once that was on camera they’d use it. A lot. Her choices were to then a) deny what she’d done with Peter, say she was just trying to get Luke to leave and hope Peter wouldn’t put her or b) own it and embrace it. Get ahead of the inevitable slut shaming and choose how this was spun. In my opinion she probably wouldn’t have ever shared what did or didn’t happen had it not been for that and I applaud her for taking the lead on how her narrative went down.
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Hi Steve!
I have recently become a fan of yours, and now I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to stop reading spoilers during future Bachelor/Bachelorette/BIP seasons… it just makes it all the more fun! 🙂
I’m going to bypass all the Luke stuff and just say this. I think he suffers from foot-in-mouth disease and he really needs to work on it. But he is also by no means the scum of the earth like people are making him out to be. I think there is a good person inside of him but it just wasn’t shown on this show, and I’m sure he’ll do a lot of growing and soul searching after this. With all he’s been put through, I think he’s been able to hold his own pretty well, but just needs to take responsibility for his actions and move on.
I’m just going to say it, I think Hannah has come across as an entitled brat on this show. I liked her on Colton’s season as a contestant, but then was annoyed when she was elected as Bachelorette because I thought she lacked substance and interesting qualities. Then on the first couple of episodes of the seasons I started to come around and was like “hey, this girl can put a sentence together and hold her own”. However, about mid-way through, I found her getting very impatient with the guys to the point where she was throwing full-blown temper tantrums and walking around as if they should bow down to her. I’ve never seen a Bachelorette act so into herself. We’ve seen it on numerous occasions, but last night was the pinnacle of it all. The way she acted towards Jed (who I absolutely can’t stand) after he expressed his feelings about Luke at dinner was so immature. Like girl, hold it together and stop getting so defensive anytime someone disagrees with you. Then with the whole Luke thing, she BLEW up at him. I get it, she’s allowed to be frustrated by what he said to her, but she acted as if he literally called her a stupid whore, when in fact that’s not at all what he said. She then proceeds to throw in his face that she f**ked in a wind-mill and flip him the bird. The guy never yelled, never lost his cool, just pretty much sat there and took it. I can’t wrap my head around that if sex is so sacred to you, why would you describe it as f**king and coming off as a frat boy douche bag?
All I have to say is that I don’t at all think Hannah is ready for marriage. I think she enjoys male attention and should go out into the world and have as much sex as she wants and get all of that out before getting married. Anyone who is going to tell the camera they f**ked in a wind mill (twice) and smirk and basically high five themself, doesn’t sound like they’re ready for marriage. If she was, she would have either kept it to herself and cherished that between her and Peter, or she would have talked about it in a more graceful way. She has been given such an amazing opportunity with this platform, and I think she has done herself a real disservice. What are your thoughts on this, I’m interested to know!
Thanks, Steve!
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Hello Steve,
Let me preface this email by saying that reading your commentary has kept me engaged in watching the Bachelor franchise for quite some time now (for better or worse). I deeply enjoy your commentary especially when I disagree with you.
I loved last night’s episode but not because Luke P got his or Hannah B told him off. Over the course of life, I’ve come to realize all the ways that I was silenced and shamed in the church growing up by men just like Luke P who proclaim (probably sincerely) to be men of God. I can’t emphasize enough how commonplace Luke P’s expressed beliefs were and how rarely I’ve seen Christian women stand up for themselves.
I am so grateful that ABC chose to include this conversation in the episode last night, even if it was motivated by ratings.
You’ve really been kicking ass with perspective taking lately, and I hope you’ll reconsider the importance of the conversation that was aired to many women like me who have struggled to find a voice or footing within mainstream Christian culture.
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Hi Steve,
I started watching the Bachelor/Bachelorette series with Colton’s season. One of my coworkers ruined it for me 5 episodes deep when they told me about your page. Now I’m addicted to reading and hearing what you have to say.
I don’t have a question, but more so a comment about Luke. I think I finally understand why he is the way he is, because I see it a lot in myself (not proud of it). Luke has a major pride issue. He is the type of person that can’t stand up and admit when he is wrong, not because he doesn’t realize it, but because he stood up to what he said for so long that it is wheeled in his brain that he has to prove a point. I’m a firm believer that this behavior is a result of being put down enough times in your life, that you feel like any other opinion is an opinion against you, not another point of view. With that said, it will take someone that truly loves him unconditionally and is extremely patient to degrade that pattern of behavior. Or a rebellious teen whenever he has one.
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Hey Steve,
You know the drill, long time reader, first time emailer.. Was thinking about the promo for next week’s episode and had a question about “the Luke situation,”
It was great watching Hannah’s wheels turn, realize what he was saying to her, then coming up with the perfect response back. I thought she handled herself very well and was a 180 from the Hannah who couldn’t form a sentence on ATFR earlier this year.
My question is with the preview for next week, we see Luke come back to the rose ceremony to what we think is to win Hannah back.. do you think he’s still this delusional and asked producers if he could go back and try to win Hannah, or do you think producers put a nugget in his head that maybe Hannah would want to see you, talk to you, and there’s a change she could give you a rose? I’m thinking the latter, knowing how this show works, but maybe Luke really is that delusional and thinks Hannah could still want to be with him.
Thanks for all you do and excited to see how all this plays out as we finish up this season!
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Don’t know if this’ll make it because of the influx of Luke stuff you’ll be getting, but the infuriating thing about Luke is his conviction that the world should revolve around him. It is fully and completely his right and his privilege to walk off the show if Hannah’s sexuality is important to him. They could have had that conversation, agreed that it is a hill both of them are willing to die on, and gone their separate ways, and it would’ve been sad but that’s just what happens in real relationships: dealbreakers.
But this issue is that he’s still trying to mold things. “If you slept with anyone else I’d remove myself.” He finds out that she does and moves on to “If you slipped up I’d still be willing to work on things.” and continues down that path that implies he would do her the *favour* of being with her despite her “faults” and “sins”. What a lucky (blessed?) girl that he would make that sacrified!!!! Can you imagine that relationship?? If he was constantly reminding her how he deigned to be with her despite the fact she slept with other people???
I grew up in a super conservative Christian fam, and went to a super conservative Christian university, and I’ve met people like him. And when you’re in the “bubble”, no one will question things if you use God as a bargaining chip. In fact, the more willing you are to “stand up for what you believe in” the more respect you get in those circles. So it makes sense that Luke has never been questioned, never had to critically explain himself and take a look at his actions. Because if his actions are bad, he can blame the devil. If they’re good, he can say it’s God working through him.
My mom really used God to manipulate and get what she wanted. And if things turned out poorly, “I listened to the devil instead of God” and poof, we’re to forgive and forget.
He’s definitely gotten in over his head. I was hoping he would have the good sense to “repent” (just to keep with the religious terminology) at MTA but it sounds like he just doesn’t have that in him.
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Hey Steve,
I am sure you have a boatload of emails about the Luke situation but I just had 2 cents to throw in. It actually hit me as I watched it–and I think you’ve been saying all along–but Luke was simple and horrendously trying to relay what he believed were his and Hannah’s shared feelings. Like he really thought they were on the same page with regard to morals and Jesus and sex outside marriage, etc. Never in a million years did he think she was actually going to say she had sex with anyone because he was 100% convinced he was her final pick, and that she would have no reason to have sex with anyone but her future husband ( being a good Christian and the faith head of her family or whatever). And why wouldn’t he believe that? After all the drama and crap that happened every ‘week’ she STILL kept him around. He declares his joy that they endured the sin filled horror that is this ‘journey’–that he had to watch and she had to pretend to be into every week and they made it to ( almost) the end. But once he declares they are on both high on the same moral, religious, sin-averse pedestal (where they can judge themselves above the other sinners who don’t understand)—she FINALLY sees what he is all about. And since she is not actually up there with him, everything comes off as a judgment against her and he has no hope. I think his “return” next week is going to be even worse for him, as he tries to show her he is really a fantastic guy because he is willing to forgive not just her “1 slip up” but whatever she has done. It all just comes off as judgemental–and to some point it is, but I kind of feel a little bad because I really think he does want to ‘practice what he preaches’. He has no idea what went wrong.
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Hi, Steve! I know a lot of your readers aren’t very knowledgeable about the Bible and Jesus’s teachings, so I thought I could give a quick, objective, explanation, as I’m an expert in Christian theology, so they could understand what in the world just went down between Luke and Hannah tonight.
EXPLANATION: Ok from a theological standpoint: they are both in the wrong.
-Luke has come off as a jerk. Christians can be jerks too, and I believe he lies and can be selfish etc. I personally didn’t love him, but all that aside, I’m gonna just explain theology.
-if they are having a theology battle: all sins are made equal. Judging is equal to other sins. So Luke needs to step on back. And he lied a lot. So he needs to own up to that as well before slut shaming. The Bible says you can’t judge others unless you are perfect yourself.
-But she is also pulling verses out of context, especially on twitter last night. Jesus sat with the sinners laughing yes and became friends. He used love to guide them to a life away from sin. He NEVER said to just keep doing it. “Walk in love … go, and sin no more.” Literal quote from him. Jesus would go to the sinners and tell them he loved them no matter what they had done, and to follow him and stop sinning. He knew they would mess up and sin again, but all he asked is that they strived not to and to live in love to others.
-Now I ADORE Hannah and don’t like Luke at all, but she’s kinda wrong if she claims it says “keep on sinning and you do you.”
-Also I’m not judging her bc it’s not my place, and the facts I mentioned are objective bc whether you believe in the Bible or not, ^^ that is what the Bible says so someone can’t claim it doesn’t say those exact words without lying.
And she was vague on twitter so maybe it came across wrong, and we are all “befumbled.” This is between her and God and her beliefs. If she wants to have sex, she can have sex and we shouldn’t be hating on her. It’s just a lie to say the Bible doesn’t care if you have sex though. It literally doesn’t affect you at all what she does though, so idk why everyone is acting victimized.
Just thought I’d give clarity to the Bible battle that non-Christians may not get.
Any whale, lots of love for Hannah as she held her own last night on twitter. Side note: I can’t believe I just kind of defended Luke. I feel like he isn’t self aware at all in how he comes off.
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