So where does that leave us in all this? I know on Saturday I had tweeted that I would give you how I think this season plays out. And I will. But I’ll be honest, because I think this, doesn’t mean this is how it goes. Because I still haven’t gotten the solid confirmation for this season that I need to confidently run with “this is the ending to the season.” However, we’re close enough to the ending where I will lay out what I think happened based on what I’ve been told. Hell, even if it does end up happening, I wouldn’t necessarily say at the end of the season “see I knew it.” Because there’s definitely some things I don’t know. I’ve said that all season long. I’m not pretending that I do know, nor have I said at any point this season that I do know what happens. It’s been one of the weirder seasons by far I’ve ever experienced. And the amount of different things that have been told to me has been mind boggling. And because this ending isn’t really gonna be finalized until the ATFR, there’s still so much up in the air.
One thing that Peter said at the beginning of the season was that this season “wouldn’t be spoiled, and there’s a reason for it.” At the time, the consensus was that he was gonna make his final pick on the ATFR and that’s why it couldn’t be spoiled. Which insinuated he told both of them on final rose ceremony day he needed more time and was gonna date both post show. That didn’t happen. I think the thing that I said at the time and again a couple weeks ago, still holds true. This wasn’t a normal ending and there wasn’t an engagement on final rose ceremony day. I also added recently that Madison self-eliminated. We know now that Madison DID meet Peter’s parents in that final week, so that eliminates one of the questions I had which was “Does Madison leave before meeting his parents and that’s why Barb is saying don’t let her go, bring her home to us?” Well no, Madison didn’t leave before meeting them, so now we know it’s sometime after that. I’m pretty sure it’s on final rose ceremony day when she leaves.
Last week, The Sun came out with pictures showing Peter on his date during final rose ceremony week with Madison. This looks to be the day portion of the date before Madison meets his parents. Why? Because Peter is wearing the exact same shirt in this picture as he is in the clip when Barb is making her proclamation. So the timing of her talking about Madison as the girl to “don’t let her go, bring her home to us,” is a question mark still. If we assume she says it on the same date as Peter and Madison meeting them, how does that fit in? I’m not sure. Could be Madison. Could be Hannah Ann. We don’t know for sure.
Peter says on the WTA that he’s happy. Wasn’t addressed whether he’s in love, and purposely avoided that question as well in an interview backstage. Robert Mills has said that this season is a roller coaster and it’s a roller coaster right up to the end of the season. His exact quote:
“What we’ve seen about the finale over the years is that the ‘finale’ is really on that night when the show goes live. There’s a lot of craziness, it’s a roller coaster, but I would say even now the roller coaster hasn’t ended, and it won’t end until after After The Final Rose.”
Mills may be known to exaggerate and tend to lean toward hyperbole, but he isn’t gonna flat out lie. When he says a statement like that, that means that whatever happened on final rose ceremony on Nov. 17th in Australia wasn’t the final bit of filming they had, they wrapped things up, and nothing has changed since. That’s not what happened. However, still trying to nail down exactly what happened on that final rose ceremony day has been very challenging to say the last. I’ve heard all sorts of things. I’m not gonna list them for you because your head might explode. Mine almost has a few times this season. But here’s what I will say.
After everything I’ve heard all season, I think what happens is at the end of all of this, Peter is trying to be with Madison and it’s all happened post show. He’s with her, they’re either working on a relationship, or they are happy and together now. However, if you told me he was single, I can’t say I’d be surprised either. One thing I’m almost certain of is that post-show, Peter absolutely spoke with Madison to try and make it work between them. But honestly, I don’t know if it did and I don’t think any of us will until the ATFR. I know that’s probably not the answer you were looking for, but I’m telling you from the things I’ve heard, the one thing that keeps coming up is this is “ever changing.”
So with that said, what does that mean for final rose ceremony day? Well we know Madison leaves. Meaning Hannah Ann is the only one left on final rose ceremony. Seemingly if he wanted her, he would’ve chosen her, had less work to do that day by dumping Madison, and they would’ve left Australia as a couple. I don’t think he chose her, but again, I can’t say for sure if he did or didn’t. Just know that if he did, they are no longer together today. Peter and Hannah Ann I feel very confident in saying are not a thing right now and won’t be come finale time. But I really don’t know if he chose her on final rose ceremony day and called it off shortly thereafter. I don’t think he did, but without knowing for sure, I can’t say it with certainty.
We saw the clip at the end of the episode last night of Peter saying he’s so sorry to someone then walking away in a drive way. As mentioned earlier, that was definitely a post-Australia filming shot. Where and when it was, I don’t know. I don’t think anyone does. Who is he talking to is in question as well. What I do know is one overriding thing I’ve been told more than anything post show is that “Peter is with Madison, they are dating, but not engaged.” Because I’ve heard it the most and it fits in with most of the narratives, that’s where I tend to believe we are right now. But to say that’s 100% set in stone? No I wouldn’t go that far. I just haven’t gotten the solid confirmation I wanted all season, like I have in past seasons. Like I said, it’s been weird. Really weird. You should see some of the things told to me. I like spoiling when I feel confident and when I feel like I’ve seen enough evidence that backs up the spoiler. This season I just haven’t. So my thoughts are just based on what I’ve been told the most (without proof) and what I feel fits into the narrative.
There’s a lot of moving parts to this ending and I definitely don’t have it all, nor have I claimed to. But if you ask me what I ultimately think happens this season and what will be the end result come ATFR, I’m leaning more towards that Peter and Madison are dating but not engaged, and everything that happened between them happened post-filming after Australia. That’s the best I got right now and if anything comes up in the next couple weeks, you know I’ll pass it on to you. Honestly though, if that’s not how it ends, I can’t say I’d be surprised. But if that’s not the ending, then I don’t know what is, because I’m almost positive he’s not with Hannah Ann. The Hannah Brown thing and the producer thing are pipe dreams as well. So if it’s not with Madison, or working on things with Madison, then I guess he’s single? I don’t know, call me Lizzo then cuz I’ll just “throw my hands up” at this whole mess.
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joanne
February 25, 2020 at 10:05 AM
The only thing that does make sense is Peter trying to get back with Madison and that they are seeing each other but not engaged.
If so, this wouldn’t be much different than Colton going after Cassie once she self eliminated. And it would also be more proof we should never listen to the show’s hype, since they made it appear to be an ending like no other we’ve seen.
crushonspivey
February 25, 2020 at 10:18 AM
Is it just me, or was the epi last night super dull. They tried so hard to contrive the drama by putting the girls together, but it is was just awkward, and mostly dull since they didn’t want top be around each other or talk really at all. That part was mostly just awkward and honestly a bit of meanness towards Madison. Proving once again that this franchise cares zero for any contestant. They just want to put them through a ringer emotionally for amusement.
The Madison-Peter stuff was dull as well because I just never bought into their love story anyway. They are too different, and Pete has been more about fooling around than trying to find a real relationship anyway. He was about the show more than anything real. It was obvious.
his season was not a good one. The romance of past seasons is going away for the sake of contrived drama, and it has lessened the franchise. Pete F’s season makes this one look awful in comparison, and that is saying something. This is Juan Pablo bad, where it was obvious that the lead really didn’t care much for the girls.
And Madison should have told Pete about her stances at hometowns. That was her mistake. She waited too long to share her values. At hometowns Pete could have decided to keep her for the fantasy suites or cut her loose. That was the time. Doing it when she did was just bad timing all the way around.
rosegoldea58
February 25, 2020 at 10:25 AM
Madison and Peter are both stubborn, and they’ll have to understand that about each other if the relationship is going to work. After Madison gave Peter the ultimatum, Peter could have demanded more time to work it out with her before going on the fantasy suite dates, but he didn’t. He just went and did what he wanted with the other girls. That was somewhat dismissive if he really was in love with her, and it shows he kinda didn’t care or was angry with her. It must have been a reality check moment of realizing, “this girl and i really dont know each other, are we really about to get engaged??” I think he had more real intimacy with Victoria, and I liked Hannah Ann on this episode a lot too. I dont care that much for Madison, but if that’s what he wants then it’s a free country. He does like a chase, and Madison is giving him that.
jman
February 25, 2020 at 11:39 AM
From a Man’s point of view, a girl needs to be upfront with her life choices. You don’t wait until the “Fantasy Suite” to proclaim your saving yourself for marriage and you can’t accept a man because he is intimate with other women he’s been dating. The Producers of the show should have given Peter the heads up, long before he chooses the last 3 women. Madison is not anywhere near the final 3 if she tells her secret. She’s gone early on. So, it was unfair for the other women on the show and it’s wrong for Madison morally to go on a show that is basically about eventually hooking up in a Fantasy Suite. Real bad television and poor decision making for ABC!!
michelleg
February 25, 2020 at 11:54 AM
*edit*
Page 3, para 4, sentence 6: judged Madison, not Victoria.
Great take on an interesting season of the Bachelor Cinematic Universe.
kabuki
February 25, 2020 at 1:09 PM
I had to fast forward through a lot of the “Victoria experience” because she turns my stomach with her hair stroking, valley girl vocal fry (every sentence ends with a question mark) and never ending drama. Enough already! Be gone! Madison had a very difficult time cutting to the chase on the virginity conversation. It was frustrating to watch her beat around the bush. I noticed she never once mentioned her very religious beliefs, which were on full display during the home town visit. I honestly don’t know how someone so religious (and with such a religious family) can work with someone like Pete who isn’t into religion. Didn’t Madison meet Peter’s parents at their “Vow Renewal Ceremony”? So, they already know each other. For sure, Peter’s crying, pleading mother was referring to Madison. Not one to upset mamacita, I predict that Peter will bring Madison home. They are dating, but the relationship is not going to last due to religious differences. You can’t fake your way into becoming religious for someone else when you aren’t relgious to begin with. It’s living a lie. No way is Peter ready for marriage anyway. Another Bachelor couple who won’t last. Roll on next season….
dbla31
February 25, 2020 at 1:19 PM
I find it interesting and a bit sad that Kelly wasn’t invited to WTA, but not really surprising. It confirms what I thought all season, that she is too smart for this show and producer manipulation. After about the first episode she looked so bored in any interaction with Peter. She didn’t even fake it. She was just there for the free trip. Good for her. But I still think she should’ve been invited to the wrap up.
justsaying
February 25, 2020 at 1:33 PM
Gosh this discussion board today is as frustrating as Peter and Madison situation.
Firstly, entitled-Pete is free to sleep around, if he chooses to. HOWEVER, don’t knowingly decide to sleep with the “crazy” one and the “boring” one and THEN, beg Madison to stay after that. Why?? He hurt her some more?? What was he thinking?? That Madison was just joking around and gotcha Pete lol!
Unlike you Peter, Madison waits to actually be 100% sure before throwing the ‘L’ word around. She doesn’t buy into that ‘I’m falling in love with you’ B.S. Yes actions do speak louder than words. Your actions have spoken.
I don’t buy Peter’s mopey face. He knew exactly what he was doing and how he hurt Madison. I swear he gets off on this. Sometimes, when it walks like a duck..
Chad, just be a hermit and have as little contact with humans as possible.
crushonspivey
February 25, 2020 at 2:31 PM
justsaying, Peter has been a man-child all season. Pretty typical for guys these days, unfortunately. He is still a boy pretending to be a man. He really just wanted the action and hookups. Obvious really. And I think production built the season around it because there was no love story to build on. Hope TPTB learn something here. Drama for the sake of drama can;t be what the franchise is about if you want a good season. There has to be a believable love story. So start showing it sooner.
jp22
February 25, 2020 at 3:24 PM
I dislike Madison as much as Kabuki hates Victoria F. And I like Victoria F. Speaking of Kabuki, what’s with Madison’s Tammy Faye Baker makeup? And two pounds of foundation? And never brushing her hair? And she constantly chews her lips and does weird stuff with her tongue, which is why she can’t keep lipstick on. The camera is continually cutting away from her face as she is about to do another weIrd lip move. I am looking forward to seeing her on ATFR because am sure she will have had a makeover.
Victoria was right to be upset about Madison’s expression of her feelings about Fantasy Suites/ultimatum. Madison was also busily taking away Hannah Ann’s and Victoria’s chances to have more time with Peter.
I wish Victoria F would stop apologizing for reacting to how often and how cruelly the producers were effing with her. They also effed with Colton big time which resulted in the fence jump. You don’t see Colton apologizing for it. (Never apologize for that Scorpio moon, it’s a superpower into seeing a situation/people clearly and the big feelings can be managed).
The show has become just so misogynistic and mean. No wonder Peter only looks downtrodden by the Hometowns. He is. Eff the producers.
Finally I’m thinking the show will be good for Victoria because she’ll drop the babydoll voice in the same way Krystal and Whitney Bischoff did.
I hear that voice in so many post Millennial women, even when they are talking to each other. It doesn’t serve them.
So everybody has an opinion, but the opinion I wish we all could share and write ABC about is how nasty the producers have become.
marie101?
February 25, 2020 at 5:03 PM
“And she constantly chews her lips and does weird stuff with her tongue, which is why she can’t keep lipstick on. The camera is continually cutting away from her face as she is about to do another weIrd lip move.”
jp22…I couldn’t agree more…I actually felt uncomfortable watching all the versions of her lip gyrations as I kept waiting for her to verbalize what she believed in and just say how she felt directly like an adult….instead she hemmed and hawed her way through explaining (or not explaining) anything. I was shaking my head. I guess I understand her not wanting to give him an ultimatum a la Luke P with Hannah B, but by the same token, she wasn’t exactly doing a good job of making him understand that she would be very disappointed if he didn’t act by her standards of behavior. And even then she didn’t tell him about saving herself for marriage until AFTER he had his two other “dates”. That probably might have opened up a deeper discussion about differences in mores and whether that is something he could compromise on.
I guess we will see what happens in the long run. I think she may have made herself more attractive to him by running away. Someone else mentioned something about “the chase”. And who knows, her being a virgin may be intriguing too. I would NOT want a do over on my first time, lol! But lasting in the long run, I don’t know, unless his Mom can keep him in line.
elizabeth82
February 25, 2020 at 10:20 PM
“But do you know which two women both wore necklaces with crosses on them last night and had no problem judging Madison?” Yeah, noticed that right away.
Aside from the last couple ones, these comments have been insightful. Peter and Madison are too different, and it was definitely dull to watch so much footage of her reaction and him not knowing how to deal.
jlal
February 26, 2020 at 5:15 AM
There is a theory that today’s young women went to using vocal fry (which drives me nuts BTW) as a counter to the “like” baby voiced every statement is a question upspeak that was prominent. What I have noticed is young people using both, which drives me even more nuts. Just speak with you normal voice, it will serve you much better. BTW, young men do it too.
I couldn’t agree more with comments that Peter just doesn’t seem that into any of these women. It may be the edit, but I haven’t seen a spark between him and one of them yet. Frankly, all of them are too young, if not in age then in maturity.
As for the theory Peter and Madison are dating. I just don’t see Peter being able to maintain a long enough relationship with Madison to lead to an engagement and stay celibate. It is not happening. He is not staying celibate for the year or two it would take before a marriage is likely to happen. I don’t see Madison or Peter rushing into a marriage.
I have to address RS saying Victoria denied twice she broke up marriages. Good, because nobody but the two parties in the marriage can break up the marriage. Doesn’t mean her morals may be questionable, but quit making women out to be the femme fatale. If those stories are true, the men who screwed around on their wives broke up their marriages. Victoria has questionable morals and is not a “good” friend, but she didn’t “break up a marriage”.
Kelley is way too smart for this show. I don’t think the producers could influence or control her. She basically mocked the show with her attitude and I’m sure they hated that.
I notice Madison’s lip stuff, but I think the one who had a really weird/active tongue/lip thing going on was Mykenna. For the love of God, I couldn’t even watch her it was so bad.
Did anyone notice that Peter told all three the exact same thing in the exact same tone and voice, when first seeing them? It was “You look beautiful” which has nothing wrong with it, by saying it to all of them with the exact same inflection just it me as a “line” and not a real feeling.
rob22
February 26, 2020 at 6:16 AM
While Peter and Madison don’t seem to be a fit, there certainly are people out there who “sowed their wild oats”, then opted to settle down with a virgin. I know that doesn’t really seem like a thing these days, but it’s not exactly a new concept. The problem, of course, is that people who opt in for this life approach actually have to change their ways & adapt to a new lifestyle. And that usually would happen over time as someone realizes that serial sleeping around isn’t actually all it’s cracked up to be and purposefully start looking for something and someone different. What evidence do we have that Pilot Pete, who likely has a girl in every city, went through that transformation & is going to actually change his stripes? None. That’s where the whole thing falls apart. In fact, Peter could have used the overnight dates to actually flip that switch & not sleep with anyone. Instead, he kept Victoria around only because he wanted some psycho sex with her. Why else keep her? There’s no long term play with a girl like her. Hannah Anne was certainly nice & willing. So again, he wanted to have sex with her. If he had really changed his stripes, he certainly wouldn’t have kept Victoria around so he could bang her. Anyway, this whole thing is playing out for maximum effect. But it’s really stupid. Peter, once again, is apparently trying for something and doing the exact opposite of what he needs to do to actually get it. Madison is young, but not stupid. I hope. She should run for the hills.
keddo
February 26, 2020 at 8:09 AM
As a Christian, what I find most interesting in these shows is how people who call themselves Christians conduct themselves. Most, by my observation, are either fairly new and/or shallow in their faith, such as Luke P in Hannah B’s season, or have grown up in Christian culture and understand how to put on a Christian face, but when there is a conflict between what they strongly desire and how the Bible tells them to behave, unapologetically follow their own desire, a la Hannah B.
Madison seems to be strong in some aspects of her faith, but shallow in others. It’s great that she’s firm in her sexual purity, but a mature (in the faith) Christian woman wouldn’t be okay with the idea of being “unequally yoked”; she would be looking for a man who would be strong in godly character, able to lead his family in faith. Even if she could convince him that sexual purity was the way to go for both of them, and that he should toe the Christian line and do all the external things that Christians do, he hasn’t shown that he is internally driven to follow Christ above all else, and that’s not something you can force, or convince, someone else to be. It starts from a fundamental change of the inner person, a giving up of one’s self to follow Christ. I hope she either realizes this and cuts bait, or that God does a miracle in Peter’s heart leading to his true conversion.
justsaying
February 26, 2020 at 8:18 AM
Man-child Pete indeed @crushonspivey
Who would have thunk Nick Viall’s is more honorable now. He only slept with Vanessa out of his F3s and now, contestants talk about sex all the time but Nick was vilified for asking.
jlal
February 26, 2020 at 9:17 AM
One thing I don’t understand is how RS is saying,because of her waiting until marriage for sex, Madison can’t be the bachelorette. Remember Sean Lowe was the same way. He made it clear he would not have sex before marriage. I don’t think he was a virgin, but then Madison hasn’t said she is a virgin either. People can decide at any point in their lives to start living a celibate life until marriage.
Then there was Colton who was a virgin. Why is it different for a women? Just curious.
crushonspivey
February 26, 2020 at 9:55 AM
I actually think Madison would make a good Bachette, if they found the right type of guys for her. Doubt they could as her type of guy isn’t the usual for this show. Would make for some good fantasy suite convos though, and for deeper conversaions on values, life goals and actual help with real coupling. Otherwise, sex leads, it that tends to make it more shallow with the weeks they have for this show.
nursej
February 26, 2020 at 6:36 PM
Instead of Peter and Madison having that important conversation in front of the cameras, why didn’t they have it during the private fantasy suite portion? (minus the sex of course)
He was clearly not wanting to speak about his relations with the other women on camera. Could Madison not have waited for some privacy?
nursej
February 26, 2020 at 6:49 PM
I think Madison was surprised when Peter said “I can see you and I together at the end… but coming into this week, I could see that with other people too.” Throughout the show, he made it seem like she was the front runner from early on and provided lots of validation throughout… minus the first impression rose which went to Hannah Anne – perhaps Madison underestimated how far he would go to explore those feelings, given how strongly he clearly felt for Madison. I get why she is disappointed. If he felt that strongly for Madison, why would he risk it?
ladyjane747
February 26, 2020 at 7:23 PM
Not sure why Peter or Madison would want to be a couple, anyway. It’s clear they’re not on the same page. When Madison told Peter about her faith and what she expected in a husband, instead of Peter’s bland, insincere assurances that he COULD be more religious and SHOULD be more religious, he should’ve admitted that he wasn’t looking for that kind of relationship and let her go. And you could see by Madison’s face when Peter responded that she realized he was not into it like she was. These two are not a match. But Peter doesn’t seem like he’s into any of these women, except Victoria F. He keeps giving her chances. He should’ve picked her and then could’ve had a wild, drama-filled relationship for a few months and then called it quits. Peter is so annoying.
bigdan
February 28, 2020 at 4:46 AM
I think if Madison would have told him the whole story, it would have had a different outcome. He was an idiot to have sex with those girls… didn’t need to happen. Madison is the true “catch” in this game.
justsaying
February 28, 2020 at 9:58 AM
Madison can tell him she’s a virgin whenever SHE chooses to. It would be very presumptuous of her to tell him before chosen to the fantasy suites. No girl should be walking around thinking all guys want to f*** me.
jman
February 28, 2020 at 1:30 PM
“Madison can tell him she’s a virgin whenever SHE chooses to.” So, I guess living a lie is the Christian way of dealing with the fact that you are going to stay a virgin until marriage and you won’t get engaged to a man that sleeps with other women. Can you say, “Double Standards!”
jdubtrey
February 29, 2020 at 2:22 AM
Neither one of them are wrong, but they do seem incompatible. Remember, the show is ostensibly trying to match up life partners. If simply not having sex one or two nights keeps the third girl in the game, is it worth it? The answer will vary on the person but the responses will fall in both sides (from both males and females).
If Peter can be attracted to Maddison without her throwing out sex kitten vibes, maybe that connection is deep enough to exchange for getting laid a couple of times.
Maddison holding on to this info until fantasy suites is counter-culture for the show as we know it. However, is the goal to find a wife or the freakiest chick?
If don’t think anyone here is necessarily wrong.
jdubtrey
February 29, 2020 at 2:35 AM
Ok I get it: stating that VF “breaks up marriages” could be self-serving for the show and at worst, misogynistic. These men can make their own decisions too.
However, isn’t this really a semantic discussion at that point? So she is alleged to have dated multiple men who she was fully aware were married. If that’s true, I don’t see how that new label turns her into a sympathetic figure all of a sudden. 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
jdubtrey
February 29, 2020 at 2:46 AM
This brings up the marketing that separates what the show claims to be from what it actually is.
The show hopes to produce an “engaged” couple when I think the best they can hope for is a “committed” one. The pair are likely to learn far more about each other after the show than they did during filming. As long as she gets the answers she needs before she either a) comprises her faith or b) actually marries him, she will have wasted nothing but her own time. I’m ok with that.
I don’t think they are compatible but she’s got time to figure that out, rushed engagement or not.
jdubtrey
February 29, 2020 at 2:52 AM
If RS has said that, I’d have the same question.
Now, if I remember correctly, the obvious difference is that Colton seemingly just happened to be a virgin while Maddison has the stated goal of waiting until marriage. Those are different sets of expectations for the viewer.
jdubtrey
February 29, 2020 at 3:21 AM
If someone connected with the show states that every contestant needs to be willing to have sex with the star as a prerequisite, than I’ll agree with you.
Of the actual stated customs, every contestant is expected to pursue marriage in good faith, and she checks that box, I think.
“Living a lie” is loading it up a bit. It isn’t like she just told Peter that she is actually a guy.
justsaying
February 29, 2020 at 8:16 AM
@jman You’re twisting and purposefully undermining Madison’s life decisions. She doesn’t need to tattoo ‘saving myself for marriage’ on her forehead. Nope.
Don’t whitewash the fact she admitted she respected Peter for not saving himself and she isn’t looking for a virgin man. Her logic was how can they get engaged when he just slept with a couple of other ladies a few days ago. Get it??
marie101?
March 2, 2020 at 7:26 PM
“Did anyone notice that Peter told all three the exact same thing in the exact same tone and voice, when first seeing them?”
SNL picked up on this and did a skit that basically skewered that. I tried to copy the link, but couldn’t, but just look up SNL Pilot Hunk.