Hey Steve!
Loved reading your column today and very much agree with your take on the whole Greg/Katie fight. I think her wanting to only tell her final guy that she is in love is sweet and special. If I am her final guy, I would have a hard time knowing my “fiance” told someone else that she loved them too. People have been up in arms in the past when a lead has told multiple people they love them, so I’m not sure why anyone would want to see that happen again.
In my opinion, if Greg truly loved her unconditionally, he would have respected her decision to do just that, even if it was incredibly difficult for him. The first conversation was hard to watch, but it wasn’t until he showed up at her hotel room the next day that he really lost me. It truly felt like he was throwing a tantrum about not getting what he wanted from her, but then proceeded to be a total jerk to her as well. From what we have seen, this was the first real “fight” for them and the fact that he was so willing to jump ship should give Katie some reassurance that he isn’t the right guy for her.
Also, I just have to say…I had no intention of watching FBOY Island, but seeing as how you seem to have great taste in TV (Jack Bauer would also agree), I think I am going to have to give it a shot. Thanks for talking me into it! 🙂
Comment: You must give it a shot. Episodes 4-6 drop tomorrow, and each one gets better than the other. Can’t wait for people to watch them. Good twists at the end of each episode.
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Hi Steve,
Long time reader, first time writing in! (I’ve always wanted to use that cliche and today’s my lucky day!).
I thought your take on the Katie/Greg thing was pretty spot on. She did come across a bit awkward when he “poured his heart out” and who knows how she was feeling (holding herself back from reciprocating, thinking she doesn’t feel the same etc). But his reaction was over the top.
A couple of thoughts:
1. Katie is a pretty upfront person and I think if she was 100% convinced it wasn’t him, she would have sent him home and taken Justin to the finale because she wouldn’t want to hurt Greg. She does seem to genuinely care about the feelings of others and it seems like she wants to do the “right thing.” (I’ve never met her in person so obviously this is just speculation about a reality tv figure but I’m pretty confident about this).
2. The thing that made me feel like Greg was a little shit was this idea in my head from online chatter about the fact that he’s wanted fame and has been trying to get on the show for a while. It makes me think he knows more about how the show works than he lets on. And, if that was the case, that his intention was to come on, make it far, and then have a dramatic exit. It seemed like he was trying so hard to manufacture an argument because his outsized reaction and vague accusations (“you’re not being Katie”) just don’t make sense to me. How can she prove that she is “being Katie” to him? She can’t, which is why he kept using that line of arguing and had room to make his exit. Any indications that this could have been his motivation?
Thanks for all your thorough spoiler work! Every season I unfollow you to avoid spoilers and promise myself I won’t check…and then I do ?
Thanks!
Comment: The “just be Katie” line had me confused as well since he never explained it. At least of what was shown to us. No idea what that meant. And if he didn’t want her to say I love you back, which he stressed a couple times, then what DID he want? “Just be Katie” is vague. She had just told him she told his parents he was advancing to final two AND he’s been a front runner all season. Seems like she was telling him “hang in there, and if it’s meant to be, it will be us in the end.” But that wasn’t good enough for him I guess.
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Hi Steve,
I couldn’t agree more with your take on the Katie/ Greg argument. Pros and cons on both sides, and yes, could have been handled better. I do think that Greg was somewhat manipulative when he didn’t get the response he wanted from Katie, he should have thought it over and realized that she may not have been willing or able to be more forthcoming.
Anyway, I did want to bring up something that crossed my mind earlier in the season when Nick Viall showed up. Do you think he might be “ auditioning “ to be the new permanent host? I have mixed feelings about whether he would be a good fit, but I would be interested in your thoughts.
Comment: I think people should know my feelings on Nick by now. Not a fan. Go listen to his podcast when he had me on if you want your reason. And also, listen to the first 15 minutes of his next podcast after that if you want even MORE of a reason.
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Real quick, I know it doesn’t really matter, but it is driving me nuts because I don’t know. What was the order of hometown dates? The way things sounded, Greg kept saying he saw part of Blake and Katie’s date “last night”, so I am assuming that means Justin was not the second hometown? And then during one of Katie’s conversations with either Greg or his family (I can’t remember which), she said she had “more hometowns”, so is it safe to assume that Justin’s hometown was actually the last and Katie rallied, pulled her big girl pants up and went on her hometown with Justin AFTER Greg left??? or was Justin’s date first and that was just a slip of the tongue when she said she had more dates to go on?
Thanks for you help so I can stop caring about this!
Comment: I don’t know what the order was. But most of the time in past seasons pre-COVID, the order shown on TV is not the order it was filmed in. If they go back to regular hometowns for Michelle’s season, which is the plan as of now, we usually know the order. Then it’s easy to compare when we see it on TV. In the bubble, really hard to find out.
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Hey Steve!
Greg didn’t look great last night by talking over Katie multiple times. Thoughts on Katie sharing a post about gaslighting in her stories after the episode that was posted in April? Definitely makes you wonder what else happened during the fight that they didn’t show. At the end of what they showed it really seemed like Greg didn’t care which is funny since he had earlier said he told his family she was the one and loved her. Do you think Tayshia tried to talk to Katie at any point or was it just Kaitlyn? I feel like she talked some sense into Katie a bit. Not a great phrase but maybe helped Katie realize it might be for the best that he left.
Comment: I think I wanna retire the word gaslighting.
Yeah, I don’t know why Tayshia wasn’t part of consoling Katie. Maybe she was and they only decided to show Kaitlyn. I don’t know.
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Steve, In a podcast this week I heard Wells Adams say that there is a strong contender for Bachelor at BIP – to be placed in the mix of Andrew S and Michael A. Any idea who he could be referencing? Connor B? I don’t know who he’s referring to, but I’d be shocked if it was Connor B. He was there one rose ceremony.
Both Michael A and Andrew S have expressed serious doubts of wanting to be the Bachelor as they are worried about their family being taken through the ringers and themselves. Is that what you are hearing? No. They’re just trying to play the humble card.
You said that you know how Blake is the one. Do you know if Justin is sent home before attempting to get down on one knee or is he sent home before? I don’t have details on the final rose ceremony, but I’d be SHOCKED if there’s an actual final rose ceremony day with two guys and Justin actually gets up to the “altar” with her. I gotta believe she sends him home early.
When was ATFR filmed? Friday, July 23rd.
Any idea how many times Katie and Blake have had happy couple weekends due to the Canadian borders just opening? And how did Blake’s family get to come to hometowns if the borders were closed? ABC pull strings? Don’t know any of those details other than I know he came to LA and just quarantined, or supposedly quarantined, when he would return to Canada.
As for the Katie/Greg blow up. I feel that we were witnesses to Greg’s intervention/therapy sessions re: the loss of his dad. You throw those grief emotions with Greg’s new love for Katie, and you have an extremely charged setting for a no-win-situation. It seemed like we missed a “happening” between Katie and Greg before he told her he loved her. Katie was not her bubbly self who was falling in love. She seemed extremely guarded. I feel like she had a red flag spike up when he was talking to her (before the I love you) and she felt the need to hold back. Something happened. For Katie to tell Nick Viall that there was a bigger villain than Thomas at the end of June. She had time to process things that transpired back in May-ish with Greg. I agree with you and I hope that the ATFR things are calm and they can be happy that they want each other to be happy. But I don’t know…
Thanks for all you do for the spoilers. I appreciate you!
Comment: I doubt it’s a blowout fight or anything, but, the press release says it’s a tense conversation or something along those lines.
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Hi Steve,
I saw your comment today on how the reader emails were low, so I thought I’d give you my 2 cents about Greg/Katie. I’m assuming reasonable fans see it similarly.
1) None of us were there, nor do we know the parties involved
2) We’ve seen similar scenarios play out with Des and Rachel with Brooks and Peter, respectively
3) Another example that’s not as obvious (since they didn’t get married) is Roberto and Ali (with Frank self eliminating). The editing really made it seem like Frank was her first choice, but I believe Ali later said it was Roberto the whole time.
Given that, I don’t think it’s far-fetched to say the editing made the feelings seem stronger than they were with Greg, and didn’t highlight the strength of her feelings for Blake as much as they could have (instead focused more on how she feels about Greg). She may have well chosen Blake regardless of that fight. Not saying she didn’t feel strongly for Greg, but we did see some hesitation and there could have been a lot more. My guess is Katie was leaning towards, or even knew, she was picking Blake when they were down to the final 3. She just couldn’t blurt that out to Greg and that’s what caused confusion. Again, she’s in a lose-lose at that point.
All that to say, I’m not picking any sides here regarding how the argument was handled (couldn’t care less), but given the show’s history the editing likely made this into much more of a story line than it otherwise would have been. I doubt Blake was a “default” and if anything, this argument probably cemented for Katie that her and Greg are not a good match. Not that I’ll ever know for sure, but I would bet Katie probably had an inkling something was not quite right about her relationship with Greg even before the fight, like Rachel has said about Peter.
Thanks for all you do!
Comment: I think most people agree that Katie and Greg wouldn’t have been a good match in the long run.
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Hi, Steve
I read your recap today (neither pro/anti either person,) and also listened to Sharlene/Andy’s recap podcast (anti-Greg) and read Ali Barthwell’s recap (who I started following after I heard her on your podcast) in Vulture (pro-Greg). Really interesting reading each of your different takes on this – is it possible to agree with all three of you, because you all had valid points! I really liked your level-headed take on the situation. Overall, I just think their argument showed 1) a lack of maturity on both their parts, and 2) the effects (mostly for Greg) of living in the Bachelor Bubble where they were manipulated by producers. Maybe it’s because I’m older and more of a realist than a romantic, but Katie’s comment about saving the “L-word” for the last guy, and Greg’s comment about only getting down on one knee and proposing once in his life are both so naïve. There’s nothing sacred in telling someone you love them. And this idea that the person you propose to at 26 years old will be your spouse for the rest of your life is bordering on delusional. Sharleen and Andy were great, per usual. Ali made great points as well. I disagreed with a lot of them, but, I thought she presented a compelling pro-Greg side.
A comment on Blake’s date: In case Americans are unaware, Canada is a COUNTRY, not a CITY, and has as much diversity as the US from one city to another. I know, I know, nobody cares. Blake is from Hamilton, Ontario, which is sort of like Pittsburgh: transitioning from a mostly working-class, industrial town to something a bit more hip/hipster (the way people call Pittsburgh the new Brooklyn.)
My question is about the timing/sequence of the dates. I can’t recall the exact point, but Greg said something about “yesterday” when he was referring to Blake’s date and it made me think that things were filmed in a different order than they were shown (I know they do this all the time.) Any insight on this? No, but filming vs how they’re shown has been known to be different in many seasons.
Oh, one other point… I meant to e-mail you during Matt’s season, but then I read Rachel’s blog post about the “Bachelor Klan,” and it just confirmed for me that the reason Matt started his first night with a prayer rather than a toast was because he (they?) wanted to make the Black lead more palatable to the BK. Could you imagine if Matt were Catholic? Or Jewish? Or Muslim? The outcry from the BK would have been fierce!
Thanks for all the entertainment you provide! Looking forward to hearing your conversation with Emily O’Brien on Thursday. I really enjoyed your last conversation back in December.
Comment: I can’t wait to talk to her today as well. We’ve already spoken about a lot of the topics we’re gonna discuss. I hope I don’t forget everything because there’s a lot I want to cover. My notes are pretty long for this one.
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Hi Steve,
I’m curious if you can comment on whether what was shown on Monday night aligned with your expectations for what would be shown, given the insider information you received a few weeks ago. It seemed at that point that you were expecting Greg to come out looking pretty bad — I think you even tweeted during the episode that the worst was yet to come (do you think it did?). But as you said in your column yesterday it seems the viewership was about 50/50 on whose “team” they were on following the episode. Were you surprised with the editing, and if so to what degree? Can you share any aspects of what you were told about the fight that you were surprised didn’t make it to air? Obviously if it was a 4-5 hour long fight, production certainly had enough footage to put whatever spin on it that they wanted, so whatever they chose to show (and not show) was an intentional choice. Combined with the montage during the credits, I’m trying to wrap my head around why production made the decision to show their lead female desperately chasing after (and literally kneeling before) a male cast member that spoke to and argued with her in a way that bordered on verbally abusive… is it really all about building the suspense for the finale?
Thanks for your insights.
Comment: I can’t really ever speak for production on this because I’m not them. What I do know is that it was compelling television that every blog, podcast, and media outlet who covers the show has an opinion on today – good or bad. And that’s all they care about. Give me an A or give me an F. Don’t give me a C. If it’s flaming dumpster fire, people will talk about it. If it’s top notch television, people will talk about it. If not a whole hell of a lot happens (like last nights Love Island), and it’s just kinda there and you get a C, that’s when they’re in trouble. You want people talking about your show, and basically everyone has opinion one way or another today on Greg vs Katie. They win.
It was tough because when I posted what I did weeks ago about the fight, I never had any specific details. I was just as curious as you as to what we were gonna see because I didn’t know. Just that it wasn’t a good fight, emotions were high, and it caused Greg to no longer be on the show. After watching it now, I thought the whole thing shouldn’t have escalated to what it did. BUT, probably for the better since Katie and Blake are together and engaged, so I guess it doesn’t matter much what Greg vs Katie did.
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1. If Katie and Greg would’ve ended up together at the end of filming, I can’t help but think he would’ve been mad about her relationships with the other guys on the show. The guy seems very insecure and has some growing up to do. Agree.
2. Who is your guess for the next Bachelor? My guess would be Michael at this point. But let me see Paradise play out because maybe, like Wells says, there may be someone from there to go after.
3. Now that time has passed, do you think Bach Nation went way too hard on Rachael Kirkconnell last season?
Comment: Depends what you mean by way too hard. She absolutely needed to be called out for attending the party, and I’m glad attention was brought to it. Did she deserve death threats, people attacking and searching her family history shit? No. Toxic Bachelor Nation is a rough place. And it’s not getting any easier.
