Always good to end the season on a good note. No, not last night’s finale. That was a shit show wrapped in shit. I’m just talking about literally giving you things that were going to happen before they happened even up until their last episode. I mean, yeah, the show probably isn’t happy, but not gonna lie, kinda took full enjoyment in ruining their Aven “surprise” 30 minutes before they went to air. Not to mention telling you the 5 women who were about to come out and meet Zach during the commercial break right before they did. Gee, how did I know this? Magic. That’s my answer. Magic. I magically know what’s gonna happen on this show before it happens. Everyone has short term memory when it comes to this past season already, but if you’re actually being truthful and not letting some narrative you already have about me infect your opinion, the bottom line is the amount of spoilers I gave this season was on par with a lot of past seasons. Didn’t have episode by episode spoilers, but you knew every main thing about this season before it happened. That’s what I’m here for. Be sure to tip your waitress.
Today’s Daily Roundup is now up and is longer than usual clocking in at around 35 minutes, but for good reason obviously – that finale last night had a lot of things to comment about. I felt I hit on most things I wanted to talk about and I’ll do my best to convey that in written form here today. But if you don’t want to read and just want to listen, the podcast is up.
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I’ll just start in the order we were shown things last night, and first start with Rachel and Tino. Bottom line is I thought that neither of them looked great last night really. I got this email during the show and I wanted to share it because it really encapsulates what I saw between them last night during their taped Happy Couple visit and what we saw on the live show:
I’ve been happily married for 32 years. Some times are better than others, but one thing we both have to try really hard at is when we disagree that we’re focused on the actual disagreement vs. “winning” the argument. They are definitely 2 different things.
Obviously I have no idea what the real “truth” is between Rachel and Tino. But the longer that segment(s) went on, the more I kept thinking this is about winning the argument, not solving the disagreement. It’s a dangerous trap.
Personally I don’t think either one of them came off looking very good. But I wish them both the best. It’s a crazy show and i keep on watching it!
Excellent take by someone who’s been in a 32 year marriage. I think all of us have probably been guilty of this at some point in the past with a partner. I know I have. So it’s not far fetched to call what we saw between them last night poor arguing skills that could’ve been handled much better.
Really couldn’t agree more. These two were horrible at arguing. To the point where I was confused what they were even arguing about at times. I hate this notion that today is Hot Take day and we either have to be TeamRachel or TeamTino and whichever one you are, you’re wrong according to the other party. How about I’m TeamNeither in terms of what I saw last night? Why does there have to be a Team anything? I thought things that Tino said and did were confusing, weird, and wrong and I thought certain things Rachel said and did I don’t understand or disagree with as well. Everybody makes everything so black and white when arguing about things in this franchise, when in my mind, there’s so much grey area.
For example, Tino brings a journal to this meeting because he had written down, I assume, some thoughts and some things that Rachel had said in their relationship and how it made him feel. He tells her, “You said this,” and she responds with, “No I didn’t.” And they couldn’t even agree on that. So how is the audience supposed to say with 100% certainty, “Oh, Tino was wrong.” Or “Rachel was wrong.” We don’t even know the details! If they can’t agree on what the other person said, and they were the two parties involved whether it was on text, over the phone, over FaceTime, or in person, how can any one of us sitting at home viewing that fight say we know for sure who was right and who was wrong? That seems preposterous to me. We don’t. We weren’t there. Seems like these two could’ve fought yesterday over whether the sky was blue or not. Their communication skills were obviously lacking and very poor. Hell, Rachel practically admitted that to Jesse when he asked how things had been since the show ended. And yeah, it really seemed like they were arguing to “win” and not solving their disagreement.
Lets get to Tino’s side. I didn’t have as much of an issue with what he was saying about his cheating as Rachel did, BUT, that’s not to say he was in the right at all. Clearly he was wrong. Are there levels of cheating? Of course there are. We’ve talked about this in the past. What I’m saying is he’s allowed to give his take on why he cheated without that being an excuse. He was explaining himself, yet Rachel immediately jumped in and told him he was making an excuse. I didn’t see it that way. However, I thought he did a horrible job of articulating it. They were an engaged couple and he kissed another woman, regardless of where he thought the relationship was at by some ambiguous statements Rachel made regarding a ring that, once again, they couldn’t see eye to eye on. But back to the cheating. So yes, if two people are engaged and one cheats, I don’t see why Tino isn’t allowed to tell her “This is why I cheated.” Anyone who’s been cheated on haven’t you at some point asked, “Hey, why did you do this?” Or at least been curious in your own mind why the person you love cheated? It’s like Rachel wanted to know how Tino got to that point, and when he was trying to give her an answer, she said he was making excuses. There’s a difference between explaining and excusing. I didn’t think Tino was excusing what he did. He repeatedly said he wasn’t. Yet Rachel thought he was. Really, their arguing made my brain hurt last night.
Another thing Tino did that Rachel had an issue with that I really didn’t was him stepping outside a couple times during their argument. What’s wrong with basically taking a deep breath during a middle of a heated argument and saying, “Ok look, I need a few seconds here. Let me step away from this heated situation and gather my thoughts.” Usually you do that because you’re so heated you don’t want to say something that you feel you might regret later on. I had no issue with Tino standing up and leaving a couple times for fear of really saying something stupid and making things worse. It’s not like he walked out on the conversation and never came back. WITH THAT SAID, where Tino messed up was after coming back from taking those breaks, he never really said anything that gave clarity to the situation. It was all very confusing and all over the place what exactly he was trying to say. So yeah, it must’ve been frustrating being on the other end of that if you’re Rachel. I didn’t feel he was gaslighting her or manipulating her. I just felt he was a mess in trying to articulate what he was tryin to say to her and it came across as a jumbled mess that didn’t help anything.
So we can sit and dissect every moment of that taped Happy Couple fight, or even what he said on stage last night live, but what’s the good in that? The bottom line was Tino cheated (no matter how minor he thought it was), and he broke Rachel’s trust. Maybe you agree with Rachel or maybe you agree with Tino, but that’s Rachel’s decision to make and she made it. Didn’t happen to me so I’m not here to tell her what she felt was right or wrong. To her it was wrong, and that should be all that matters. So the social media keyboard warriors attacking her and calling her a psycho, telling Tino to run, calling her bipolar – totally unnecessary and what I hate most about this toxic fan base. They act like they’re all morally superior to all these contestants because we don’t know a thing about these people doing the criticizing. But I guaran-fucking-tee if we opened up and dove into the private lives of these people who always have so much to say, we’d find so many red flags and skeletons, we wouldn’t know what to do with ourselves. You can disagree with Rachel and think she could’ve gotten past him kissing another woman while engaged, but then resorting to name calling because of it? How does that make you better? Gross.
30 minutes before the finale aired, I’d tweeted out that Aven was coming to the ATFR and he was going to ask Rachel out. To me, you can disagree with how Tino approached the argument last night, and be down on Tino for cheating, but I’m sorry, he didn’t deserve to be ambushed up there on stage like that. Send him off stage after he and Rachel basically break up, THEN bring Aven out. To do it like they did, then yet wanna claim they are anti-bullying is so hypocritical. They wanted a TV moment more than they cared for Tino’s well being and you can’t convince me otherwise. It’s bullshit of the show to do, it’s bullshit of Aven to agree to it, and I think if Rachel could take back her reaction and happiness about it all on stage, she would. And I say this because look, if I knew this was coming, don’t you think I’m aware there’s more to this? I’m telling you, that was production putting Aven up to this and him agreeing. I’d be shocked if they even go out on one date or even continue to talk. Rachel was in a bubble last night so she couldn’t have possibly known ahead of time, but hopefully in the next 24-48 hrs talking to friends and family that word will get around Aven was put up to that by production, he agreed to it, and there’s really nothing that’s going to come of any of that. Because they knew everything was gonna be bad for Rachel last night, they wanted to give her somewhat of a glimmer of hope, which is why they did that. Very similar to how they had the planned Tyler Cameron appearance at the end of the Hannah Brown ATFR. It was just to leave people with some semblance of, “Maybe this wasn’t a disaster after all” feel. Sorry. Not buying it. Nor should any of you. Trust me on this one. I’ve been dead on about a lot of things this season. I’m not wrong on this either. So when nothing comes of Rachel and Aven post show, will you THEN believe me?
September 21, 2022 at 7:47 AM
I totally agree with RS that both Rachel and Tino came off bad. That being said, I was saying run Tino run to my screen. Sorry for the Rachel fans, but she seems a tad emotionally high maintenance. I think he is lucky to get away.
When she told Tino she would take off her ring if they went back to dating, it was obvious that Tino heard she was taking it off. That is why he kept saying she said that, because that is what he heard. Also, based on his questions you could tell he thought she might be playing him all along. I felt bad for him, before the disgusting Aven stunt. That made me sick. Nobody should be treated that way, no matter what. They could have had Tino leave the stage and then brought him out, but to do it the way they did was low, cruel, un-necessary, and even abusive.
I wish Gabby and Erich well. The whole Amanda thing is overblown. They dated only two months, never said the L word, and he figured out she wasn’t the one. We have all handled break ups or partings badly before. Or, at least I know I have done things I regret. A ton of relationships go hot and heavy at first, but don’t last past the 3 month mark. The 3 month mark has always been my barometer. Don’t get too invested or say the L word until you are well past the 3 month mark. Most dating relationship either fall apart by then or move to the next level.
September 21, 2022 at 8:18 AM
I have to take issue with the whole “Rachel is a saint and Tino is a sinner” story line.
I also have an issue with the show forcing cast members to be tortured during the Fantasy Suites.
Rachel was nailed in season 18 by Clayton and again by Aven in season 19(‘the full package’). Tino also presumably was also involved. She could have said no at any point. The show forces the finalists to sit by counting stars while the person they are falling for is going through the Fantasy Suites orgasma-tron. Then the cast member is forced to act like nothing happened. Better to pick the last finalist, then share one Fantasy Suite night, and then the final rose if all works as planned. To me, this is torture for real people.
Tino’s transgression, to me, was fairly minor. But regardless of what Rachel(or Tino) both say, I think they both felt something was off. We will never know what. If she loved him, she would have forgiven him after a butt-chewing. He wouldn’t have done it in the first place if all was right. So it wasn’t meant to be. Rachel is not a saint, nor should she be condemned, ditto with Tino.
September 21, 2022 at 8:20 AM
To address RS’s comment about if Erich is leading Gabby on. Most of us have dated someone that we knew wasn’t “the one”, but just the one right now. Or, at least I have dated people that I knew I wouldn’t end up marrying and for whatever reason held on past the expiration date. Also, many guys and women (not me I have always been pretty blunt), have dumped someone in a poor way or taken the easy way out and ghosted someone. I know of a bunch of guys and women over the years that have done that. Doesn’t mean they will when they find “the one”. Doesn’t say much for them, but doesn’t make them the devil incarnate either.
September 21, 2022 at 8:32 AM
OMG, jlal, you expressed EXACTLY how I felt last night watching the show. How could anyone NOT feel badly for Tino the way he was “skewered” on stage? Rachel came off a real bitch; she wouldn’t even listen to one word he said. I, too, feel that she’s very high maintenance, which is probably why they were having problems post-show. And she proved on the show that she’s very insecure, demanding a proposal. The whole Aven thing sickens me. I agree with Steve, that she knew she wanted Tino so she let Aven go using the excuse that he wasn’t ready to propose. Erich did the same to Gabby, but she loved him and gave him a chance. Rachel is a hot mess, definitely not cut out to be Bachelorette. In my opinion she deserves to end up alone. She needs therapy before she enters into another relationship. Shame on the producers who left Tino out to dry. I feel he should have been named the Bachelor. Zach is not a good choice.
September 21, 2022 at 8:47 AM
Why are you simping so hard for Amanda, the scorned ex?
He’s not gonna f-ck you, Steve, if that’s what you want.
September 21, 2022 at 8:49 AM
PS…I meant to add my two cents about Tino’s “cheating.” If he did just kiss a girl once, and he and Rachel were on the outs, then I don’t see that it’s so bad. I’m not saying what he did was okay, but I can see how it possibly happened. And I agree with jlal that if Rachel truly loved him, she’d at least hear him out and think about forgiving him one indiscretion. I’m guessing papa Tony fueled her with the hatred we saw her spewing last night. And, give the guy credit for coming clean rather than keep it from her. Rachel showed her true colors last night.
September 21, 2022 at 8:52 AM
Good one, @harryhodag1. I most heartily agree!
September 21, 2022 at 9:41 AM
Thank you for stating everything I also thought!
September 21, 2022 at 9:52 AM
Same, same. I’m usually pretty blunt, too, figuring it’s so obvious that the guy and I are not compatible that there’s no problem with one of us saying it out loud. But there have been those occasions when it’s not clear to the guy that I’m just not invested, and that’s when I’ve erred on the side of being too vague and have taken too long to be over and out. So I just tapdance through that whole departure, and it gets super weird as a result. Bluntness seems to work the best. It’s short, clear and clean and leaves both parties available to start moving on right away.
September 21, 2022 at 11:14 AM
I’d have to agree with most of the above comments. Rachel doesn’t seem ready for a relationship and was too focused on getting engaged the whole season. Doesn’t surprise me how it turned out for her.
I liked Gabby so much more on this season that what I saw on Clayton’s season. She seems to be very much in love with Erich and time will tell as always.
I thought that Amanda was trying too hard to get her name out there even though she said she wasn’t doing it for the publicity. She sounds like an ex that is milking this for everything she can in hopes of getting something out of it in Bachelor Nation.
MY BIGGEST COMPLAINT: Why the hell do people want to crucify Erich for something he did in HIGH SCHOOL???? This whole movement of educating ourselves and not being racist has gone too far. The guy was in high school, and he was a kid. And that was long before the woke-movement started. When all the BS started about Rachel Kirkconnell and her “racist college days”, I thought that it was being taken too far. Nobody has a flawless past. Why not judge people on where they are in present time. We all make bad choices, and it doesn’t always mean we are bad people.
Rant over, I feel better now.
September 21, 2022 at 11:25 AM
I’m with you dogmomma! Why the heck is Steve making such a big issue what Erich did in high school, chastising ABC for not making Erich own up to it. I’m sure ABC felt like we did…that something you do in HS is a non-issue. I, too, felt Gabby was way more likeable this season, and I can’t help but wonder if Rachel felt she couldn’t compare to her co-Bachelorette. Rachel’s stylist made her look downright dowdy all season, while Gabby’s stylist made her look gorgeous and sexy. When they stood next to each other the contrast was remarkable. And she was just such a downer the whole season. How the heck did she expect someone to propose when she kept cancelling cocktail parties nd dates? How well did she even know her final guys?? The results are very telling
September 21, 2022 at 2:03 PM
The only winner was Tito . He was honest, apologetic and humble . He was treated like crap by “Needs Therapy narcissist ,drama queen” Rachel. Lost respect for her and the producers. I hope Tito finds a good girl who treats him like a king. This finale left me wondering if I will ever watch this show again.
September 21, 2022 at 2:27 PM
ctrealitygirl I couldn’t believe Steve has gotten on board with this “Erich needs to apologize for being racist and try to do better” crap. So many of the comments on social media say the same thing. Our past shouldn’t define us, and nobody should have the power to tell us to repent for things we did many years ago.
I agree with you on Rachel’s whole demeanor. Her clothes were so frumpy, and she was always so upset and dramatical. It’s no surprise she ended up alone.
The other thing that bugged me was how she kept bringing up how awful Clayton treated them on his season by falling in love with 3 girls and sleeping with 2 of them. She did the exact same thing. I don’t think it’s necessary for people to bash someone from another season. The producers are ruining this show by creating so much hate. I’ve lost interest in the show and now I just start watching when they are down to the final 3 or 4.
September 21, 2022 at 5:43 PM
I appreciate the spoilers that Steve gets for us. I really do. However, he patted himself on the back so much in today’s column that I had the urge to smack him. Is it just me? His ego just seems so large……
September 21, 2022 at 9:08 PM
Right?! It was almost unbearable! I sometimes even wonder why he does this job at all because he obviously hates the shows and dislikes most of the people on them. It’s a bit strange..
September 23, 2022 at 11:31 AM
I did try to get in Tino’s head a bit. Let’s say he was over it, which it seems like he was. Option 1 is to be honest and break up. But, then you realize that this is going to be on TV & it might look better to pretend to be together and break up after the show is over. So, Option 2 is to fake it. And while faking it, gee, what’s the harm in using my new found fame to troll the bars? What a dummy. What did he think was going to happen? My general rule is that “you’re never wrong doing the right thing”. There might be some short term downsides. But it’s really hard to argue when someone is being straight up and trying to do the right thing. Tino got what he got because he did the wrong thing. That said, I do think he dodged a bullet. I wasn’t a fan of Rachel and she did herself no favors on the ATFR.
September 24, 2022 at 2:55 PM
I couldn’t even finish the finale. Rachel is ridiculous and extremely emotionally immature. Not that I was a Tino fan either but she just wouldn’t stfu.
September 24, 2022 at 9:59 PM
I have watched every season of The Bachelor/Bachelorette since day one up until Chris Harrison was fired. I’m sorry, but as corny as Harrison was, he was the glue that kept the show together. These other hosts can’t hold a candle to him. If Fleiss was smart, he would have hired David Spade to host who at least is super funny and sarcastic. This season I only watched the two-part finale and that was plenty enough. Rachel was absolutely insufferable arguing with Tito. I could barely stand another second of her evil stares and horrible baby voice. She came off way worse that Tito did. And Gabby and Erich won’t make it two days after she gets cut from DWTS – maybe even less since DWTS is now on subscription-based Disney+.